Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Nutrition > Weight Gain, Weight Loss, Body Composition

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-30-2010, 09:15 AM   #1
Troy Kerr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 248
Default Zone and gymnastics

I am doing a guesstimation that I am somewhere around 8 percent body fat. Last time I had it measured it was 11.4 and since then I have gained a significant amount of muscle and lost a good amount of fat. I would really love to just knock the rest out as my goal has always been 5% bodyfat. I am just concerned if following a base zone would be
detrimental to my gymnastic training ( I am following a steady state cycle).
I typically follow an 80/20 paleo diet. I currently stand at 5"9, 185lbs, at less than 10% bodyfat. Is it possible to lose the fat without sacrificing my routine?
Troy Kerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 11:44 AM   #2
Derek Weaver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,642
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Kerr View Post
I am doing a guesstimation that I am somewhere around 8 percent body fat. Last time I had it measured it was 11.4 and since then I have gained a significant amount of muscle and lost a good amount of fat. I would really love to just knock the rest out as my goal has always been 5% bodyfat. I am just concerned if following a base zone would be
detrimental to my gymnastic training ( I am following a steady state cycle).
I typically follow an 80/20 paleo diet. I currently stand at 5"9, 185lbs, at less than 10% bodyfat. Is it possible to lose the fat without sacrificing my routine?
I doubt it's likely. Certainly possible, although 5% bf is near bodybuilding contest lean.

Tough to perform in any way, if you get what I mean, at that level of bodyfat.
__________________
Quote:
And if you don't think kettleball squat cleans are difficult, I say, step up to the med-ball
- CJ Kim
Derek Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 12:11 PM   #3
Donald Lee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 646
Default

I just noticed that the Zone Diet category on this forum is gone.

The Zone Diet is too low in protein to get that lean while maintaining muscle mass, unless you're naturally lean. You should be eating anywhere from 1-2 g of protein per lb of LBM.

Getting to 5% bodyfat is extremely difficult for most, and you might not be able to do it on a simple Zone-type diet.

I'm also going to guess that you're underestimating your current bodyfat % and that you don't really know what 5% body fat looks like. 8% bodyfat is RIPPED, if you have some muscle. 5% body fat, as Derek said, is bodybuilder status. Even bodybuilders rarely maintain 5% body fat. Martin Berkhan is the only person I've actually heard of who maintains 5.5% body fat year around and is not an endurance athlete.

If you're going to try to maintain anywhere close to 5% body fat year around, you're going to have to implement frequent refeeds and some other nutritional strategies far more advanced than the Zone Diet.
Donald Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 02:54 PM   #4
Troy Kerr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 248
Default

OK I appreciate that. As far as my body image goes, my iliac crest is quite visible but there is still some fat at the top of it and towards my low back. My guesstimation came from google images. I have a clear abdominal outlining as well. I am in the process of finding someone to test my body fat again.
My only other idea would be to follow a ketogenic diet based off of paleo selection. Any thoughts on this approach?
Troy Kerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 04:13 PM   #5
Derek Weaver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,642
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Kerr View Post
OK I appreciate that. As far as my body image goes, my iliac crest is quite visible but there is still some fat at the top of it and towards my low back. My guesstimation came from google images. I have a clear abdominal outlining as well. I am in the process of finding someone to test my body fat again.
My only other idea would be to follow a ketogenic diet based off of paleo selection. Any thoughts on this approach?
My current take on ketogenic diets is that they're utterly stupid for athletes unless you have severe insulin resistance (unlikely if you're already lean) or have epilepsy.

A cyclical ketogenic approach may work well where the deletion of carbs on a low/no carb day would equal a pretty severe deficit. Carbs go high and you're at maintenance or a little below, carbs go medium and you're in a slight deficit etc. Protein and fat kept fairly constant the whole way.

You can definitely get very lean Zoning, but it sucks. If you want to get freaky lean, for whatever reason, just recognize you'll be hungry and pissed off at least some of the time.

Lyle's made mention that the biggest factor in maintaining lean body mass is intensity in the weight room where intensity equals the weight on the bar.

Check out this post by Martin on Stubborn Body Fat

There's also a good one right before that one that I linked to in this forum (and nobody seemed to give a crap about it I guess) regarding Malcolm Gladwell on LC diets.

Like Donald said, refeeds help the issue. They're not necessarily required though. People have gotten very lean (including a lot of Crossfitters) without refeeds in the past. They are nice though.
__________________
Quote:
And if you don't think kettleball squat cleans are difficult, I say, step up to the med-ball
- CJ Kim

Last edited by Derek Weaver : 07-01-2010 at 12:08 AM. Reason: stated something incorrectly
Derek Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 04:45 PM   #6
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

You might regress strength or plateau sooner.... but it shouldn't be a big deal
__________________
Posts NOT intended as professional medical, training or nutrition advice.
Site // Bodyweight Strength Training Article // Overcoming Gravity Bodyweight Book
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 06:24 PM   #7
Donald Lee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Kerr View Post
OK I appreciate that. As far as my body image goes, my iliac crest is quite visible but there is still some fat at the top of it and towards my low back. My guesstimation came from google images. I have a clear abdominal outlining as well. I am in the process of finding someone to test my body fat again.
My only other idea would be to follow a ketogenic diet based off of paleo selection. Any thoughts on this approach?
From that description, it sounds like you're at 10-12% bodyfat. And definitely have a look at the article Derek linked.
Donald Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 06:34 PM   #8
Troy Kerr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 248
Default

I have read his article and the only problems I have are facts I should of mentioned in my first posting.

I am type 1 diabetic on an insulin pump. In this past any type of fat burner ( when I was in hs and experimented with them) jacked up my blood sugar. So I am weary of supplements like that.

I also work in a restaurant while home from school for the summer. So long hours on my feet without eating, and a less than optimal schedule.
Troy Kerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 12:14 AM   #9
Derek Weaver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,642
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Kerr View Post
I have read his article and the only problems I have are facts I should of mentioned in my first posting.

I am type 1 diabetic on an insulin pump. In this past any type of fat burner ( when I was in hs and experimented with them) jacked up my blood sugar. So I am weary of supplements like that.

I also work in a restaurant while home from school for the summer. So long hours on my feet without eating, and a less than optimal schedule.
Ahhhh, I wasn't even thinking Type 1 diabetic. Gymnastics based strength work etc. is a good choice.

In that case, paleo-ketogenic stuff makes sense.

I would check in on Robb Wolf's page in that case. He's got a ton of stuff for the Type 1 diabetic.

That post of mine should have said something like keto diets are utterly stupid unless you're insulin resistant, epileptic or type 1 diabetic. I kind of acted up on that one.

Definitely Robb's page.
__________________
Quote:
And if you don't think kettleball squat cleans are difficult, I say, step up to the med-ball
- CJ Kim
Derek Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 10:37 AM   #10
Troy Kerr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 248
Default

Its all good man. Yeah I was fortunate enough to meet Robb at one of his nutrition certs 2 years ago. Since then the man has been nothing short of a life saver for me. Based on the zone calculator I'm at 19 blocks. I will roll with that for at least 3 weeks and see how things go.

In regards to that article, it mentions that some sort of activity during the fast will help things out. Now would this be the same as doing 20 minutes of "cardio" after waking up from a 12 hour fast?
Troy Kerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:30 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator