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Old 03-29-2007, 10:40 AM   #21
Rick Deckart
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GTG never worked for me for a longer time, same with Intensivstretching (same principle only for stretching) at some point I skipped sessions and then not to much later the whole thing collapsed.

Fair enough with that Kid but harsh.

I remember that Dan John in one of the Get Up! volumes stated, that he worked up to 20 pullups (or was it chinups?) but maybe I got that wrong. Perhaps he could state how he did it, please Dan?

BTW simply change chin-up to pullup in my posts above, I am too lazy to edit the posts. I throw these terms together often probably because my numbers are not that far apart...
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:36 PM   #22
-Ross Hunt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Puetz View Post

I would agree with you observation about lock offs but I think the critical point in the chinup is the transition around 90 degree. If you ask somebody who has only a 10 rep max to do chinups from the top to 90 degree, up and down he will usually knock off a lot more chins... I would set up the bands in such a way that they would offer only little support on the top.

Pavel I don't know but would guess that there are better templates available if you can already do 20 reps...
That's persuasive.

It's probably worth emphasizing that training volume doesn't equal gains when you're talking about endurance (doing 20 singles over the course of twenty minutes is less conducive to progress than knocking off two sets of ten), but of course your program addresses the need for training in a high rep range... sound good.

BTW, I should have mentioned that lockoffs seem to be a lot easier to do w/ chins than w/ pull-ups, and their carryover is specific to your grip, so there might be a limit to how useful my advice is in that regard.
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Old 03-30-2007, 08:26 PM   #23
Steve Shafley
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The mind is willing but the body may not be.

Overuse injuries are the bane of the really high volume routine.
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Old 03-30-2007, 08:45 PM   #24
Pierre Auge
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Steve,
do you have a set of rings?

First things first lets avoid any overuse injuries which tend to occur as a result of training a fixed grip. Both a pronated or suppinated grip will place undue stress on the tendons and with any kind of volume are likely to cause said injuries as you suggest. The way out is a neutral grip.

Do not confuse a hammer grip with a neutral grip it is not. A neutral grip places the hands at approximately 45 degree angle facing inward from the frontal plane. The two best options for this are rings or an old easy curl bar.

I'd post some pics but my stupid camera is being repaired! Gay!

Almost everyone who comes in here with elbow tendonitis can do pain free pull-ups on the rings once I show them this. It also removes some stress from the rotator cuff but that is a seperate discussion.

I know you have a swiss ball or a bosu hinden somewhere around there now I suggest you setup you pull-up station at a height that you can place your heels of the ball out in front of you.

I know you can do a few pull-ups, but let me tell you something, I want you to limit the amount of bodyweight pull-ups you do for a while. The point is to perform some very low intensity motor learning (practice) from a position that you can do quite a few repetitions. Let's say 25. But they have to be a fairly easy 25. The following week you will increase the resistance (decrease leverage) as appropriate. I figure it should take you about 9 weeks until you can leverage yourself against nothing and pull a larger number of pull-ups at full bodyweight.

I only want you mixing in bodyweight pull-ups every other day during this affair if you care to try it...

Hell if your game we could make this muscle-ups!
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Old 03-31-2007, 06:58 AM   #25
Steve Shafley
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Rings are really my next purchase for my gym.

Not only will I play with them, but my daughter loves to swing on them in her gymnastics class. I've been meaning to pick them up for over 6 months now, but haven't gotten around to it.

Any suggestions for the "brand"? I'd prefer not to wait in some kind of queue for Tyler's rings. I was leaning towards the Torque Athletic rings, but now PCI has some as well.
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Old 03-31-2007, 09:09 AM   #26
Mark Fenner
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Hi folks,

I like the idea, mathematics, and symmetry behind Ethan Reeves "Density" approach to rep related goals. Here's one post on it (scroll down on the linked page):

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=596042

The idea is this. Fix a rest interval, say 1 minute. Double your number of reps that you want to do. Say I want to get 20 chins. My number is 40 chins. Then, simply start with doubles and do as many sets as necessary to get to the modified rep goal (40). Here, I'd start out with 20x2. When that was "doable" or "moderately easy" ... I'd move to triples. Since 3 doesn't "go into" 40 evenly, I'll use 42 instead. So, now I do 14x3. And so forth:

20 of 2
14 of 3 (42)
10 of 4
8 of 5
7 of 6 (42)
6 of 7 (42)
5 of 8
4 of 10

I think 10 reps, 1 min rest, 10 reps, 1 min rest, 10 reps, 1 min rest, 10 reps will get you really darn close to 20 reps. I can't tell you for certain, b/c I've only played around with this ... though since I rolled my foot (OUCH!), I'm moving to an upper body specialization program and I'm using this progression for chins and dips (with the goal being a muscle-up). If 4 of 10 doesn't do it for you, you could step to 3 of 14.

I'll probably do this twice a week (advancing when the current progression is tolerable) with a third day of heavier stuff thrown in ... 3x3, 5x5, 8x3 or so. Just to keep working on the limit strength as well.

Regards,
Mark
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Old 03-31-2007, 10:13 AM   #27
Dave Van Skike
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Was waiting for that one. I have used the Reeve density style as well. Nice addition.
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Old 03-31-2007, 04:59 PM   #28
David Wood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
Rings are really my next purchase for my gym.

Any suggestions for the "brand"? I'd prefer not to wait in some kind of queue for Tyler's rings.
My understanding is that Tyler has no wait anymore . . . shipping within one week. I'd buy from him just on the general principle that no one else would ever have done it if not for him . . . the others are selling to a market that he created.
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Old 03-31-2007, 06:32 PM   #29
Derek Simonds
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Pierre I would love to see your progression towards a muscle up. I went to the opening of Crossfit Evolution in Longwood today and they had a harness to assist with muscle ups. I of course jumped right on and with a mere 60 lb's of assist voila, muscle up. I am pretty sure that I could do it with less. I didn't try as I am pretty banged up from BJJ this week and really trying to make Saturday and Sunday rest days.

I like your progressive resistance approach and recommended that to my wife for pull ups.

How would you use the same technique to attain a muscle up? I have some ideas but would love to hear it from you.

Sorry for the possible thread hijack.
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Old 04-02-2007, 10:29 AM   #30
Rick Deckart
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So to summarize the outcome so far:

Taking Shaf from 6 to 20 pullups in 6 weeks is not possible.

Steve, yes volume based training can lead to overuse injuries, so great care has to be taken to chose the correct loadings, to vary the grips position etc. but whom do I tell that... All in all I far prefer volume over intensity based training. Both have there place, both work, both have shortcomings, but I once did some agressive waveloading to up my weighted pullups (got to an easy triple with 45kg) which gave me major problems with my right elbow...

What do you think of plan B (more or less identical to Pierres high rep idea). You do have a power rack and strong bands, correct? You should try to slip one strong band over the two safety bars. I would start around hip heights, stand on the band and try to do pullups. To increase the load you could simply lower the safety bars say every week. How many pullups can you do with the assistance of a strong band which is attached to the rack in the described manner?
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