Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Endurance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-28-2010, 08:17 AM   #21
Shane Skowron
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arien Malec View Post
He placed 89th in the Western States 100, and there are 369 starters, so the dude's elite place is about 75% of the starters. I'd bet that's not even the top third of men.

Don't get me wrong, that's an insane race, and just getting a buckle is a pretty awesome accomplishment. But, uhh, what?? From the CFE website "This program only requires 6-8 hours per week to COMPETE at Ultra/Ironman distances.)"...
1. He didn't get a buckle at Western States.
2. Placing in the top 25% of North America's most prestigious ultramarathon isn't bad. I wouldn't consider it highly competitive though. I'm also not convinced he was following the same CFE protocol that is advocated now when he trained for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gant Grimes View Post
The article was written a few months ago. What were the finishes after starting CFE?
The article is several years old now. As far as I know Brian has not finished a 100 since AC100.
Shane Skowron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 02:10 AM   #22
James Evans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gant Grimes
The article was written a few months ago. What were the finishes after starting CFE?
He's the same age as you and me. The article said he was 34 at the time, so two years ago.
__________________
The rationale for reduced gin intake and the knowledge of the perils of alcoholism and attendant metabolic derangement has almost entirely come from physicians and researchers.
James Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2010, 01:49 AM   #23
Adrian Miles
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arien Malec View Post
No doubt, and if that was what the CFE marketing actually said, cool. Whether it's true for someone who hasn't already put in the miles is a different question.

But CFE says you can get competitive in 6-8 hours/week, and that's a shit from a totally different breed of bull.
I think I've heard of one athlete who hadn't been logging the miles before embarking on CFE. (And they may have been a marine or other army type). In a lot of the athletes that were using CFE and publicising it on the forum over there many of them would drop in a long run, ride or brick workout.

I believe McCormack knows how to use his hips in the correct manner too.
Adrian Miles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2010, 07:40 PM   #24
Steve Shafley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,285
Default

At this point it's painfully obvious that CFE protocols don't work.
Steve Shafley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 07:42 AM   #25
Shane Skowron
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
At this point it's painfully obvious that CFE protocols don't work.
It depends what you want it to do for you. Generally I would agree that it's not the best way to prepare for most endurance events although that doesn't mean it doesn't work at all. The reason people can't take it seriously is mostly because it's claimed that it's superior than all other programs or that it's adequate for competition.
Shane Skowron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 11:39 AM   #26
Geoffrey Thompson
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
At this point it's painfully obvious that CFE protocols don't work.
The specter of championing a fitness program without clearly defining what it is that the program delivers combines elements of fraud and farce. That's an old CrossFit line from the infamous Girevik interview. However, championing a fitness program that does not deliver what it claims to deliver truly combines elements of fraud and farce...
Geoffrey Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 01:04 PM   #27
Garrett Smith
Senior Member
 
Garrett Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,368
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey Thompson View Post
The specter of championing a fitness program without clearly defining what it is that the program delivers combines elements of fraud and farce. That's an old CrossFit line from the infamous Girevik interview. However, championing a fitness program that does not deliver what it claims to deliver truly combines elements of fraud and farce...
Ouch. That one is going to leave a mark.
__________________
Garrett Smith NMD CSCS BS, aka "Dr. G"
RepairRecoverRestore.com - Blood, Saliva, and Stool Testing
My radio show - The Path to Strength and Health
Garrett Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 10:07 AM   #28
Steve Shafley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,285
Default

CFE does not deliver.

It's a clear cut case of using inappropriate tools for the job.

You don't get better at running, swimming, or biking by doing short metcons, or even long metcons.

All of those activities require a certain amount of skill and adaptations.

That bit from the Girivek magazine is gold. Tyler Hass is a damned crybaby though, and regularly reads the "couch" thread on IGx and reports to Crossfit HQ.
Steve Shafley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 11:59 AM   #29
Shane Skowron
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
You don't get better at running, swimming, or biking by doing short metcons, or even long metcons.
Depends on the level of conditioning the person is at. If it's anywhere near elite level, no way. Below that, it hcan elp. Untrained people can get better at just about anything with almost any aerobic exercise.

Improvements in VO2Max, strength, and muscular endurance may not have great carryover but there is some carryover, which will work up to a certain point. I'm sure Lance Armstrong would agree, having done very little running training before putting up a 3 hour marathon. I've met a couple rowers who did no running and yet could run a pretty fast 1-2 miles.

I agree that metcons should not be the basis of an endurance program, however.
Shane Skowron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 01:17 PM   #30
Jarod Barker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 320
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
Depends on the level of conditioning the person is at. If it's anywhere near elite level, no way. Below that, it hcan elp. Untrained people can get better at just about anything with almost any aerobic exercise.

Improvements in VO2Max, strength, and muscular endurance may not have great carryover but there is some carryover, which will work up to a certain point. I'm sure Lance Armstrong would agree, having done very little running training before putting up a 3 hour marathon. I've met a couple rowers who did no running and yet could run a pretty fast 1-2 miles.

I agree that metcons should not be the basis of an endurance program, however.
Lance Armstrong is a great example. I hadn't thought of that. Arguably one of the best endurance athletes in the world, yet change the demand from cycling to running and he really struggled. It's not for lack of conditioning, it's lack of specificity.

You make a good point about beginners as well. Beginners improve no matter what program you put them on. When my girlfriend decided she was going to workout with me, I just put her on Starting Strength. Her lifts were jumping 10 pounds a week for I can't remember how long. I was stunned, I never made that kind of progress, but then I had to remind myself, it's that novel stimulus. Beginners make gains on any program because something is always better than nothing.

I think the issue here though is not about beginners. The article claims that CFE can make you elite or even improve already elite athletes if they're willing to go backwards first for a couple years. The evidence just isn't there though. The elite endurance athletes of the world are still plugging the miles, swimming the laps, and cycling for hours on end. If the CFE protocol really was the "BEST" protocol, I think you would see it more widely used. That being said... I don't think the CFE programming is completely without merit, but just that in the case of this article, it does not deliver what it claims.

In any case, Shane, didn't you run an ultramarathon at one point? I thought remembered seeing that on the NSC forum. How did you prepare for it? I'm assuming you didn't follow CFE, but I'm interested in what you found worked best.
Jarod Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator