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Old 01-27-2011, 08:47 PM   #31
Charlie Vassallo
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I have cut my runs to twice a week (just two long runs a week). I am prepping for a 30km race.

As for everything else, its not to show abs or anything, its just to feel good and improve overall personal performance. I know the abs are all diet and strict diet control.

I don't feel sluggish, lack recovery or anything like that, and that's the thing, you would think I would.

I listed my days as being 5/3/1 + Assistance and then at times the WOD or prowler work.

And this is to much for fat loss?

Perhaps the post workout whey protein is?

So, if I were to change my routine up, how would it look to optimize the most amount of fat loss?

Run = walk
5/3/1
WOD

And done or totally different?

Its just I can't eat solids after some of the intense workouts, I would rather drink.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:15 AM   #32
Derek Weaver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Vassallo View Post
I have cut my runs to twice a week (just two long runs a week). I am prepping for a 30km race.

As for everything else, its not to show abs or anything, its just to feel good and improve overall personal performance. I know the abs are all diet and strict diet control.

I don't feel sluggish, lack recovery or anything like that, and that's the thing, you would think I would.

I listed my days as being 5/3/1 + Assistance and then at times the WOD or prowler work.

And this is to much for fat loss?

Perhaps the post workout whey protein is?

So, if I were to change my routine up, how would it look to optimize the most amount of fat loss?

Run = walk
5/3/1
WOD

And done or totally different?

Its just I can't eat solids after some of the intense workouts, I would rather drink.
The bold and underlined part changes everything.

5/3/1 + assistance and either Prowler OR WOD is too much. Not only that, but it is far from optimal to run a race of 30km.

Better idea, and stay with it to get an idea of where fat loss ties in and may come from regarding training, food etc.:
Lift no more than 2x/week. Short and sweet. Any assistance should be of the injury prevention variety, focusing on trunk control, mobility and strength around your hips (special attention to the glute med.), knees and ankles. Enough upper back work to maintain good posture. No need to introduce more training stress than necessary. Maintenance should be the mindset until after the race.

Actually train for the race by putting in the mileage. This means absolutely nothing resembling CFE. I can't think of anything less conducive to a successful 30km race than the WOD (mainpage or CFE), other than not training at all. In the paraphrased words of Mark Twight: In order to go long, you must train long.

Diet:
@ 195 lbs, your BMR, not factoring in the endurance work that's required is 2900-3000 kcal/day. I wouldn't be surprised to see you needing closer to 3500 or even higher in order to maintain once your mileage kicks up. Endurance work burns a ton of calories due to the volume/duration.

It is very easy to run a caloric deficit while training for an endurance event. Best not tinker with your food until necessary, and be willing to even bump calories if need be. Under recovery is a great way to burn out and get hurt fairly early in the game.

Look to get at least 1 g/PRO/lb/day. Minimum of 1.5 g/CHO/lb/day. .5-.75g/fat/lb/day. Adjust carbohydrates upwards as training load increases, weight falls too fast, or general feeling of under recovery begins to set in.

And regarding the whey protein PWO. Liquid nutrition is fine and often preferred following cases of heavy training. Besides being easier on the GI tract, it is a great way to help get adequate caloric load when the demand is high. From a health standpoint, whole food coming from as close to the natural source is obviously best, but if everything else is dialed in, there's not much to worry about here.

Just my semi humble opinion. I will freely admit that my knowledge of all this is still developing, but I do have enough knowledge to know that the current program you've got going isn't going to work well for you come race day. I also have a feeling you'll still do Fran next time it comes around. I note these things because I identify with you a bit and mean no offense.

Best of luck and let us know how the race goes.
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:14 AM   #33
Grissim Connery
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The bold and underlined part changes everything.
totally
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:41 AM   #34
Troy Kerr
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Forgive me for not shifting through all four pages to find this, but have you tried a paleo zone approach? Definitely helps keep portions in check, and cycling it for 4 weeks at a time did me wonders. Im not going to lie, it can be a pain with the slight feeling of hunger, but it definitely helps drop the fat, as well as maintain performance. Just food for thought.
Also, I feel like your biggest issues besides overloading on fruit throughout the day is your post wod. It will not matter how well structured your workouts are, if your post WOD carb is sugar ( gatorade) and your portion is high, 30-45 carbs worth. It will def. impact your fat loss. Robb Wolf and OPT have both spoken about this, OPT even used to make recommendations on his blog based on one's bf%. Basically the lower your body fat, the more carbs you consumed post wod.
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Old 02-07-2011, 04:06 PM   #35
Derek Weaver
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The gatorade has nothing to do with it for an already lean individual. If he is healthy, and has no metabolic condition, such as diabetes/pre diabetes, it is by and large going to be a calories in/calories out situation.

Prepping for a 30k race is the most important piece of information that somehow didn't get into the original information when this thread was started. Trying to fit that race in with the lifting, CF and prowler work, while focusing on fat loss is a losing cause 100% of the time.

My bet is that if our OP has heeded the advice in this thread by dropping most of, if not all of the CF stuff, and focused more on running and lifting for durability, he'll drop a bit of fat unintentionally. Slight caloric deficit, more training at a lesser shock to the system = leaner, fitter, ready to race. As he nears 10% it may be a little different, but the tricks and tactics that some need to get into the 10% or below range are by and large inappropriate for him.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:28 AM   #36
Charlie Vassallo
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Guys, I've taken all of your advice in this thread.

Thank you for all of it. That's why this website ROCKS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
5/3/1 + assistance and either Prowler OR WOD is too much. Not only that, but it is far from optimal to run a race of 30km.

I also have a feeling you'll still do Fran next time it comes around. I note these things because I identify with you a bit and mean no offense.

Best of luck and let us know how the race goes.
The thing is this.

I ran a Half Marathon with no training (runnning - purely CF/prowler etc..) and posted a decent time for a first timer. So after that race, I figured I might as well stick with what I was doing and continue doing it for the 30km race. I know totally wrong approach.

As for Fran, I wanted badly to do it the other day, but I skipped it when it came up in the WOD at my box. It was hard but I had other plans.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Kerr View Post
Forgive me for not shifting through all four pages to find this, but have you tried a paleo zone approach?

Also, I feel like your biggest issues besides overloading on fruit throughout the day is your post wod. .
Yes I follow Paleo. It has been hard lately - wifey is preggers and can't stomach and smells of cooking even basic of foods - so what I am to do? Know what I mean.

I know my Post WOD Shake is my biggest problem, but I am learning as to what to replace the carbs with another form. I just can't stomach to eat something after an intense WOD so that's why I use the liquid.

If I can find a liquid that is healthy (not sure if something exists) I will sub out the gatorade. Any help on this would be awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
The gatorade has nothing to do with it for an already lean individual. If he is healthy, and has no metabolic condition, such as diabetes/pre diabetes, it is by and large going to be a calories in/calories out situation..
I am about 10 or so pounds from where I want to be and then I'll be set. My abs are starting to show (on the sides) and my stomach is getting flatter and flatter. I just need to shed the last ten or so. As for the gatorade, I am not super lean (say a 8-10% BF).

What I have done though to my training is put the runs (two a week) on my off days from CF/Strength Training so that I'm not overloading and running a calorie deficit day.

Thanks everyone for the support.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:53 AM   #37
Chris Butler
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Originally Posted by Charlie Vassallo View Post
If I can find a liquid that is healthy (not sure if something exists) I will sub out the gatorade. Any help on this would be awesome.
Apple juice
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:02 AM   #38
Charlie Vassallo
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Apple juice

How much and do you recommend a particular brand?

Thanks

Guys, I had someone suggest the following for PWO:

250mls. of a natural unsweetened fruit juice (grape and blue berry or apple) with a small jar of "fruit mix" like apple sauce and a medium banana that way you have glycogen replenishment with a liquid (fruit juice) and puree and a solid (banana) that way your body replenishes for the full 60 minute window available + Protein (like my protein shake)

How does this seem?
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Old 03-03-2011, 07:59 PM   #39
Steve Shafley
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This is the ugly truth: Fat loss is NOT linear. Fat loss can be railroaded in the following situation:

1. You're doing TOO much.
2. You're eating TOO little.

This combination actually tends to stall weight loss, especially that last bit.
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:52 PM   #40
John P. Walsh
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Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
This is the ugly truth: Fat loss is NOT linear. Fat loss can be railroaded in the following situation:

1. You're doing TOO much.
2. You're eating TOO little.

This combination actually tends to stall weight loss, especially that last bit.

Listen to this man. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to fat. Right Shaf?
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