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Old 02-16-2011, 06:37 PM   #881
Jarod Barker
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Originally Posted by Jason Bourgeois View Post
Which also brings me to a point I would like to make about tendonal stability: it is strikingly obvious to me that many injuries in CF mirror those experienced by bodybuilders. Tendonal tears are normally the result of increased work capacity and strength of the surrounding muscle groups in a such a short period of time as to prevent tendonal adaptation. So what bodybuilders achieve by overdosing adrogens, crossfitters seem to achieve by failing to "pre-hab" their supporting groups and tendons.
I think you would find that there is also a large amount of overdosing androgens within the Crossfit community as well. Fact of the matter is, many of the "firebreathers" do multiple WODs a day and even without periodization and continually working to failure, they manage to recover for the next day's beatings. That kind of workload and training would be unsustainable without some additional Vitamin T. You may be on to something since many of the SLAP tears and other injuries are occurring in experienced athletes as well as newbies.

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Originally Posted by Bryan Kemper View Post
What about the scaled workouts link on the "Start Here!" that directs people to the BrandX scaled workouts? http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index..../viewforum/16/ WFS

or more detail on the Start Here page?
For the person who endeavors to take on CrossFit without the guidance of a certified CrossFit trainer, we recommend three distinct approaches, depending on your fitness experience and available facilities:

1) If you are largely familiar with the stable of CrossFit exercises then start with the WOD (Workout of the Day). If you've had exposure to Olympic weightlifting, powerlifting, and gymnastics, jump right in. If an exercise is unfamiliar, acquaint yourself with the movement through the video clip for the movement on the exercises section of the site. This option is for those athletes with an extensive experience in athletic strength and conditioning - jump right in.

2) If some or many of the exercises are unfamiliar to you and you are only modestly acquainted with elite athletic training, we recommend that you follow the WOD and substitute other exercises for those where you don't have either the equipment or skill and then devise a plan for acquisition of the necessary skills or equipment needed to participate completely. We are developing a Substitution Chart in the FAQ for replacing exercises for which you've not developed the skills or don't have the equipment.

3) If many or most of the exercises are relatively or completely unknown to you, then we recommend that you begin learning the movements for a month or two until you can either perform our common exercises or have substitutions worked out for those movements under development. This is a great place to begin for anyone with little or no experience with serious weightlifting or gymnastics.
Bryan, you make an excellent point. There is a resource for scaled WODs, and actually I was going to mention this, but you beat me to it. However.... The crappy problem with it is no one utilizes it.

What's worse is the peer pressure and the mentality within a gym. Example: My first coaching gig was at a Crossfit affiliate. I would attempt to scale each workout for every member present. So, take Fran for instance, my newest trainees would be doing Fran with just the bar and jumping pullups, and my 6'8" 320 lbs lineman would do Fran with 185 pounds and a 50# weighted vest at 9-6-3. Still a couplet, still thrusters and pullups, but scaled to the individual's ability, right? Only, here's the problem, everyone wants to say they did it "as Rx'd." And as a young and inexperienced coach, when an athlete told me "no, I'm doing it as Rx'd." I backed down (foolishly and wrongly), and let them do it the way they wanted.

A motivated athlete is a dangerous person to have in your gym. They will probably do something stupid if you aren't up their ass watching them. So, while yes, you're correct, there are scaled WODs. I, myself, am guilty of having never scaled any of the WODs ever. When I started Crossfit, I never clicked Start Here, I never saw BrandX, I just did what was on the main page.

Respect for BrandX though for posting scaled versions of every WOD.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:06 PM
John Thomas
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:17 PM   #882
Steve Shafley
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The exposure CFE got in 4 Hour Body is just going to make things worse. In fact, I think the majority of the 4HB book is essentially unworkable exaggeration.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:58 PM   #883
Jarod Barker
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This brings up another good point. A lot of their suggestions for scaling just make things worse -- 3/3 or 4/4 dips/pull-ups for someone that can't do a muscle-up; jumping pull-ups or pure negatives for someone that can't do a pull-up; 3 dips for every ring dip.

When you already have a potentially rhabdo inducing amount of reps, asking the untrained to triple the work or to focus only on the negative is not the way to go.
Ah yes, an excellent point. First time 30 muscle ups came up as the WOD, I didn't own a set of rings and had never done a muscle up, so I did 120 pullups and 120 dips. I was physically unable to straighten my arms for an entire week, no exaggeration. That was dumb.... 30 muscle ups is no where near as hard as 120 pullups and 120 dips.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:46 PM   #884
Steven Low
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Honestly, I'm really surprised more people haven't caught on that crippling soreness = bad

Why do you want to work yourself to the point where your workouts the next 2-3 maybe even 7 days are going to piss poor?

Plus soreness is highly related to rhabdo the worse it gets.

Meh.

More is not always better, especially things like the 120/120 pullups dips sub for the mucsle ups. TERRIBLE sub. Do 30/30 pullups dips with +25% of your weight then you're talking or say actually practice mucsle ups *gasp*

But that's neither here or there i guess
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:45 AM
Rafael Susigan
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:59 AM   #885
Andrew Wilson
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:04 AM   #886
Shane Skowron
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Originally Posted by Bryan Kemper View Post
2) If some or many of the exercises are unfamiliar to you and you are only modestly acquainted with elite athletic training.
What does the word "elite" have to do with anything in that sentence?

If you're "elite" at something (for example, you've won a national championship in some recognized sport) it does not mean you're capable of performing a WOD without getting rhabdo. In any way.

For example, see that elite miler guy on iamunscared.com who just got rhabdo.

Everyone wants to be elite these days. Hate to say it, but just because someone follows a workout regimen posted on a website doesn't mean they are elite.
For reference, Dan John -- "What is Elite?" http://danjohn.net/2010/12/what-is-elite/

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Originally Posted by John Thomas View Post
I read the post in the link above and saw that Mr. Unscared said the following:

"The muscular endurance most folks are used to requires long efforts at aerobic levels, vs. the extremely explosive, full range of motion, anaerobic and aerobic work a 100 burpees for time workout requires. You can shatter like glass, quite literally, as that is what happens to the tissue when it is so under trained."

Is that accurate at all?

I thought the primary rhabdo risk came from workouts that overemphasized the negative, eccentric part of a movement and had little to do with how explosive or anaerobic it was. That's why, for example, jumping pull-ups will cause rhabdo in the lats (because you lower yourself many more times than you ever could have raised yourself up) but they don't cause rhabdo in your legs (because once you can't jump anymore you have to stop).

Yeah, not really accurate. Burpees aren't explosive.

The reason you can get rhabdo from burpees is the same reason you can get rhabdo from pushups -- because the going down portion is easier, and you can always go down again, and that's what causes the damage.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:21 AM   #887
Russell Crosswy
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Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
The exposure CFE got in 4 Hour Body is just going to make things worse. In fact, I think the majority of the 4HB book is essentially unworkable exaggeration.
I picked up a copy of 4HB last night and flipped through it and saw the schedule in the endurance section towards the back and saw CF everywhere. I thought wait a minute, looked at it more closely and it was the CFE protocol straight from the CFE website. CF 3 on, 1 day off with 3x CFE WODs a week with the Time Trial on a CF rest day.

I didn't look through the book to see if Tim Ferris tried out this protocol for himself or if he had a case study or story of someone else succeeding with this protocol.

I used CF along with some CFE WODs in early 2010 and was able to improve my 10km time. I posted a race report on my website (work and family safe) and tried to pull together as much data as possible. However, I've thought about this more since that race, I built up to a half-marathon in November 2009 and I also ran the 400m in track in high school and college, PR was 49.75s. So, I think having had good endurance before helped me regain some of that ability quickly later on. Not sure if there is a technical name for it, I just call it the "has-been returns" effect. This would be similar to the "novice" effect.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:08 AM   #888
Jon Pechette
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Is anyone here familiar with the CFE program that was used for a guy designated "Rookie" to prepare for a 50k? I don't know much about endurance training, but to me it at least seems a lot more legit than the CFE prescribed on their site.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:05 PM   #889
Bryan Kemper
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Originally Posted by Rafael Susigan View Post
Great.

Bryan , follow , you realize for maintain good things , like lifestyle and all good things for people dont need SPP , you just need a couple things?
.
.
.
.
People how never training nothing , make gains with all fuck bul*** . But you make a good choice to learn movement , all this good things . i like x-fit because of that, and you make more gains doing this things. but x-fit make a huge mistakes too, like i say above.
and dont make nothing for improve , sorry but is real! People how train x-fit ,like you try to learn do changes. But the program you follow called x-fit do nothing , for improve your one program.
Rafael...I really cannot follow your point, mostly I assume since English is not your primary language. You seem to have good points, but I don't understand.

Sorry
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:08 PM   #890
Shane Skowron
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Originally Posted by Jon Pechette View Post
Is anyone here familiar with the CFE program that was used for a guy designated "Rookie" to prepare for a 50k? I don't know much about endurance training, but to me it at least seems a lot more legit than the CFE prescribed on their site.
More legit in what way?
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