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Old 03-01-2011, 02:53 PM   #1011
Steven Madison
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[quote=Bryan Kemper;87587]
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Originally Posted by Steven Madison View Post
One of the workouts that my "trainer" scaled me down to this:

March 14, 2008

5 rounds for time:

9 reps 85 lb hang squat clean (scaled from 155lbs)
18 ring rows (scaled down from rope climbs)

17:43

90 ring rows and at that time I struggled with 2 dead hang pullups. This was scaled, I mentioned that right, Bryan?

QUOTE]
Steven,

I don't know your training background or conditioning status at the time, so it may or may not have been too much volume for you. At least you were not expected to do a large volume of jumping towel pullups with slow negatives until you "felt the burn."

I have had many workouts that have left me wrecked both before and after starting Crossfit. Many of the before workouts was too much volume too soon resulting in major DOMS. I have had many CF WODs that have wrecked me, but not so that I have had to curtail training or sought medical attention.

How much of an awareness of the condition "rhabdo" has resulted in DOMS being described as "mild rhabdo?" Muscle soreness is a side effect of training....
I couldn't straighten my arms for almost a week.[/
If you're being obtuse on purpose, bravo! If not....

DOMS is one thing, being quite sore for a day or two sure. Not being able to straighten your arms is another. And ring rows are just as bad as any jumping pullup with a slower negative.....they're begging for rhabdo.

You're in the military. What would happen if you went to work and seriously, your arms were bent at the elbow 90 degrees?
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:58 PM   #1012
Bryan Kemper
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Originally Posted by Pat McElhone View Post
Brian,

You mentioned you are "medical" in the AF. How many cases of Rhabdo are there each year in the AF? I know that is a big number, but ask a renal specialist. I was an ICU nurse at Ft. Benning many years ago. In my 3 years there, I saw 2 cases, there may have been more than that, that is what I saw.

Ft. Benning is where a lot of training...infantry basic/advanced/ranger/airborne, etc. Alot of guys going through there doing pretty physical demanding stuff.
Since I am in eye care and not in Internal Med or ICU, so I don't have any idea on AF rhabdo admissions or diagnoses. I can't find the email that had information about the success at Luke AFB, but they compared the injury rate with Crossfit compared to various intramural sports and other activities. The per participant injury rate with Crossfit WODs was miniscule compared to the intramural injury rate. Sorry for the lack of details.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:07 PM   #1013
Ryan Lyman
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Originally Posted by Bryan Kemper View Post
... but they compared the injury rate with Crossfit compared to various intramural sports and other activities. The per participant injury rate with Crossfit WODs was miniscule compared to the intramural injury rate. Sorry for the lack of details.
apples and oranges.

getting injured playing a sport is almost inevitable, no matter the individual, even in intramurals, if you play long enough. its a risk you take playing a sport. but CF is a (very very poor) training program NOT a sport.

in most cases, you should not get injured training in your gym for your sport/work. the exception, i suppose, would be olympic lifting or powerlifting. if an individual did get injured it is usually a result of stupidity, ego, or both.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:09 PM   #1014
Derek Weaver
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Originally Posted by Bryan Kemper View Post
Since I am in eye care and not in Internal Med or ICU, so I don't have any idea on AF rhabdo admissions or diagnoses. I can't find the email that had information about the success at Luke AFB, but they compared the injury rate with Crossfit compared to various intramural sports and other activities. The per participant injury rate with Crossfit WODs was miniscule compared to the intramural injury rate. Sorry for the lack of details.
Bryan,
The injury rate of intramural sports compared to Crossfit is a non argument. Comparing actual sporting competitors to CF'ers who are performing a workout that is supposedly meant to prepare them for anything doesn't make any sense, at all.

This may be a bit harsh, but if you can come up with an actual argument, instead of drawing obscure comparisons, that would be a first. It would be good for this thread.

Why ask questions if you admit at the end of the post that it is unlikely to change your viewpoint?

My view on crossfit not being the dumbest exercise movement in the history of exercise is open to change if someone can come up with actual science and examples of elite performance, injury prevention, and lack of jack assery. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anyone show that lately.

To this point, we've got science as well as anecdotal evidence against CF. On the CF side, we've only got anecdotal evidence, and a F*** ton of injuries on the message boards alone. Oh, and a fundamental lack of understanding regarding science as it relates to human biology, physiology, and at times, physics. I have a degree in History and seem to understand the science better than those at the top of the CF hierarchy do. It may not be criminal, but it is tragic.

Between SLAP tears and Rhabdo cases alone, that's enough for any sane individual to choose a different path.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:21 PM   #1015
Bryan Kemper
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I stand behind my personal performance and satisfaction with the program. It works for me and many others that I have been personally associated with in Crossfit.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:33 PM   #1016
Ryan Lyman
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Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post

My view on crossfit not being the dumbest exercise movement in the history of exercise is open to change if someone can come up with actual science and examples of elite performance, injury prevention, and lack of jack assery. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anyone show that lately.
While i certainly agree CF is stupid movement, i must give a little credit to it. life/training in hawaii is mostly about ocean activities, triathlons, and mma/bjj....mostly endurance stuff. and i've done or tried most of it. although the CF training methods are nothing new, CF opened up worlds that I would never heard about, much less done, down here in isolation. after all, the olympic lifting community in hawaii is very very small. and CF defects will only help these types of communities to grow.

but aside from that, i can see no other perks with CF, especially since i am already happily married. thus, i still feel it is my duty to let people how i feel about CF, if they ask me.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:04 PM   #1017
Justin Z. Smith
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Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson View Post
I've said this so many times on this thread, and its the reason why I was banned on the CrossFit messageboards in 2 posts in the first place.

Greg Glassman:
Created CrossFit and the exercise prescription
He doesn't have an education in anything exercise related
He doesn't have a performance background in anything related to crossfit workouts (gymnastics isn't in the wods)
He doesn't have any exercise accreditations
He spits in the face of all clinical and evidence based established exercise information, trials, phds, coaches, educations, credits, and sports
He doesn't even exercise
Talks really big
Makes up his own exercise vocabulary, goals, definitions and competitions

It's a massive red flag for malpractice and injury causation


Yet this guys is considered an expert, people are innocently being crushed by the workouts he's making up, the definitions he's come up with, are being influenced by their "work capacity philosophy", are being put in life and death situations, and subjugated to permanent skeletal injuries.

Someone gets the rarest form of life threatening muscle damage, and everyone looks around and just blames it on the victim, while its consistently repeated

And people are defending this guy and the company.
Or afraid to confront them about it.
Its not right.
I dunno, using dead military personnel for marketing seems more than slimy. Some questions come to mind:

a) did the personnel even do CrossFit?
b) did CrossFit HQ get permission from the family?

I'm sure a) and b) are "Yes", but thought I'd throw it out there if others agree/disagree. It doesn't make it any less slimy IMO if the answer is "Yes" to both, something about it just doesn't seem honoring. One day the workout is about your son who met a tragic end in Iraq, the next day it is SDHP and med ball cleans and a picture of people's bare a$$es on the mainsite WOD.

I think more honoring would be to have workouts in honor of all of them, say in a several day long games format, instead of here and there randomly on the mainsite. Use the proceeds 100% to re-activate Operation Phoenix which seems defunct, donate to the personnels' family or favorite charities.


Justin
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:33 PM   #1018
Andrew Wilson
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I think people are forgetting when comparing common sports injuries (tendinitis, achilles sprains, knee pain, overuse injuries etc) to CrossFit rhabdo and SLAP tears... Rhabdo takes 6 days of intensive medical care day and night in a hospital, SLAP tears cost what, a $20,000 surgery bill (guess)? That can't be compared to common sports injuries of triathletes that can be healed with 3 weeks of inactivity. If someone's arms swell up like balloons and they ignore it for 2 weeks they're dead.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:47 PM   #1019
raj rihal
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crossfit is fun until it injures you.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:11 PM   #1020
Derek Weaver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Kemper View Post
I stand behind my personal performance and satisfaction with the program. It works for me and many others that I have been personally associated with in Crossfit.
Again, your pesonal experience has been good. Congratulations, and I hope it continues for you. But, when you get hurt, this thread will still be here to serve as a reminder.

The point I, and others, repeatedly have tried to make to you is that anecdotal evidence is all that CF has ever had going for it. Compared to actual, verifiable, scientific evidence, in addition to anecdotal evidence for other fitness and sporting programs, Crossfit is subpar, in nearly every way except arrogance.
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And if you don't think kettleball squat cleans are difficult, I say, step up to the med-ball
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:13 PM
John Thomas
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