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Old 02-21-2011, 11:27 AM   #101
Samuel Hughes
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i am considering starting a new thread regarding heart rate training, but i'll keep it here for now.

so i am having fun playing with my heart rate monitor doing different tasks, but it's caused me some confusion. yesterday, i did an LSD day and didn't want to go too hard b/c i was pretty sore and worn out from the past week. i noticed that when doing a rowing machine or jump rope, my heart rate was generally bouncing around 125-150. to keep it at 150, i would have to put in effort, nothing crazy, but i just had to consciously remind myself to push the pace a bit above comfort. if i didn't remind myself to go a bit faster, then i would hang around 130-135.

i also ran yesterday, and my heart rate easily ranged from 155-173. what confuses me is that it didn't take any considerable "perceived effort" to keep my heart rate at around 163. the only other time i maintained this kind of heart rate for extended periods was with hict box step ups (these were performed a week or so ago).

the only real difference between exercises that i can notice is the amount of upper body contribution. i feel that both jump rope and rowing are limited by your upper body's ability to generate power. it makes sense to me that exercises where the lower body is doing a lot of work jacks up your heart rate more. what confuses me is why the perceived effort was so different. my assumption would be that when you're HR is higher, fatigue would onset faster regardless of exercise. yet i felt that i could have maintained a heart rate of 170 running for a relatively extended period, while hitting that 170 jumping rope would have required A LOT of double unders which i could only maintain for a short period, followed by some sort of rest.

i figured the rowing machine may be tricky to analyze since you're sitting, but the jump rope threw me off.

if it is true that you can keep your HR higher for longer periods with running or other predominately lower body exercises, then how would this affect programming? is the only real purpose of including upper body motions in conditioning just to build local muscle mitochondria changes, or is there some special or equal benefit to cardiac output that cannot be generated from a lower body limiting exercise alone?

For me, the perceived difficulty would be about the added resistance. Rowing and jump roping have added weight. Try running with ankle weights (don't really do this) and you'd probably have the same effect.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:41 AM   #102
Ben Byram
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I'm planning to use the block training template in the Ultimate MMA conditioning book from July onwards. I have no specific goal or plans to do MMA in this 8/9 month period (although I'm toying with restarting Judo or trying boxing).

Perhaps asking in the fighting forum is not the best idea, but regardless has anybody used his methodology without actually doing any martial arts? Would you recommend any modifications or alterations to the template? More emphasis on strength endurance perhaps...

I'm doing this just for fun and I enjoy programming, so this seems the best option for 'general fitness' whereby I can introduce variety effectively. (No discussions of Crossfit necessary).

I'm interested to hear any views / comments.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:24 AM   #103
Donald Lee
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I'm planning to use the block training template in the Ultimate MMA conditioning book from July onwards. I have no specific goal or plans to do MMA in this 8/9 month period (although I'm toying with restarting Judo or trying boxing).

Perhaps asking in the fighting forum is not the best idea, but regardless has anybody used his methodology without actually doing any martial arts? Would you recommend any modifications or alterations to the template? More emphasis on strength endurance perhaps...

I'm doing this just for fun and I enjoy programming, so this seems the best option for 'general fitness' whereby I can introduce variety effectively. (No discussions of Crossfit necessary).

I'm interested to hear any views / comments.
I used it a little bit to train for the military. It worked out very well for me.

Joel didn't write out a set plan on purpose. He gave guidelines. If you want to do more strength endurance work, you can do that. You're supposed to have a goal and use block training to meet that goal. If you're deficient in strength endurance, then you'd put that as your primary focus and secondary focus as often as possible into your blocks.

If you're just doing this for fun though, you don't need to make it into something overly complicated. Conjugated-sequence programming (the block training model in the book) is an advanced model of programming that isn't for everyone. For non-athletes/competitors, I'd recommend that they not worry too much about smooth transitions between blocks or even the timing of blocks. If you feel that you want to work longer than the prescribed time for a block, I don't think it matters much.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:44 AM   #104
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Thanks, I will use his suggestions to form the framework for different blocks without being too rigid. That is a good point.

EDIT: I had a quick look at the book and I think strength endurance would develop just fine during the power endurance block and I could always add some more circuit training, complexes perhaps I reckon.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:31 PM   #105
Yael Grauer
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Just started working on this program starting with the conditioning block... question about tempo. It's not circuits, right?

Also, assuming I do BJJ 3-4 days/week, is this too much for off days to work towards?

Workout A: Tempo, HICT, cardiac output
Workout B: HICT, cardiac output
Workout C: low volume HRI, cardiac output

Starting out (beginning of phase) it's looking more like this:

Workout A: cardiac output
Workout B: tempo
Workout C: HICT, HRI

With jits of course on 3-4 additional days and 1 rest day. (Probably will do jits on the cardiac output day if I had to double up at all.)

My only problem so far is that I am having a hard time keeping my heartrate steady for cardiac output (I'm biking, and there are hills and flat areas so hard to stay in range instead of zigzagging) and for my HRI attempt I couldn't get my HR up to 150 even doing hill lunges... I don't have access to a spin bike ATM, so need to figure out how to do this. I think burpees even or bagwork might be a better choice...
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:26 PM   #106
Donald Lee
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Originally Posted by Yael Grauer View Post
Just started working on this program starting with the conditioning block... question about tempo. It's not circuits, right?

Also, assuming I do BJJ 3-4 days/week, is this too much for off days to work towards?

Workout A: Tempo, HICT, cardiac output
Workout B: HICT, cardiac output
Workout C: low volume HRI, cardiac output

Starting out (beginning of phase) it's looking more like this:

Workout A: cardiac output
Workout B: tempo
Workout C: HICT, HRI

With jits of course on 3-4 additional days and 1 rest day. (Probably will do jits on the cardiac output day if I had to double up at all.)

My only problem so far is that I am having a hard time keeping my heartrate steady for cardiac output (I'm biking, and there are hills and flat areas so hard to stay in range instead of zigzagging) and for my HRI attempt I couldn't get my HR up to 150 even doing hill lunges... I don't have access to a spin bike ATM, so need to figure out how to do this. I think burpees even or bagwork might be a better choice...
HICT and HRI may be hard to do on the same day, esp. if both are using your legs. You can do tempo for just upper body and HRI on the same day. I also wouldn't do HRI and cardiac output on the same day, but if that's all you can do, then I'd make sure that you're not pushing the volume of cardiac output on that day.

I only attempted HRI once, b/c of a lack of access to anywhere or any tools to do it, and I suffered the consequences when I went to OCS. I was doing fine on everything except running up hills. I actually had to be pushed up one hill the first time. I thought that HICT and lifting weights for my lower body would allow me to be decent at running up hills, but it wasn't so.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:45 PM   #107
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Well, the cardiac output is pretty easy, I can keep my HR at 130-150 either jogging or just doing drills and bagwork. No prob for 3X/week. Tempo is also easy, it's just regular weight work at tempo. I've done 1-legged deads, assisted pullups, rows, etc. Still need to work my HICT and HRIs in.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:14 PM   #108
Donald Lee
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Well, the cardiac output is pretty easy, I can keep my HR at 130-150 either jogging or just doing drills and bagwork. No prob for 3X/week. Tempo is also easy, it's just regular weight work at tempo. I've done 1-legged deads, assisted pullups, rows, etc. Still need to work my HICT and HRIs in.
I don't think Tempo is supposed to be easy. It should be done to near failure.
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:37 PM   #109
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I don't think Tempo is supposed to be easy. It should be done to near failure.
yeah, i think tempo is harder mentally than ME a lot of times. tempo squatting just sucks. i think it's because during ME, i try to blast through the sticking points while, in tempo, you have to stay in them.
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:45 AM   #110
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Weird. I'm doing Romanian deads and pullups and rows and have the metronome on, and it doesn't seem hard at all.
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