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Old 07-11-2011, 09:57 AM   #1661
Pat McElhone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson View Post
What would a rhabdo post be without a good expert analysis from Jon Gilson, one of the top crossfit coaches in the world.



...



What about DNF?
I wrote that what, like 2 and half years ago. Did you see my original comment? Believed it then and still believe it now.

It is the strong willed person that can push themselves hard enough to get rhabdo. Intensity can be deadly.

All Tony Budding's tweets are from Greg Glassman. Nothing original. Just goes to show, at the HQ level, CF stopped evolving about 5year ago.
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:28 AM   #1662
Andrew Wilson
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yeah actually did, almost posted them:

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Old 07-11-2011, 10:36 AM   #1663
Corey Kissel
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The article just added in the journal about peaking is absolutely ABSURD. There's so much wrong with it that I don't really know where to begin. I'd love to hear Andrew's reasoning as to what the major faults are with the authors' rationale and how an argument against the proposed implementation is an excuse developing a program that would take time and effort, at best. No subscription necessary to view the PDF. I'm upset that some people will likely look at this article not knowing any better and become victim to the EXTREMELY BIASED AND PRESUMPTIVE ATTITUDE of writing that was utilized in this article. The data provided is far from being conclusive, the comparison are ridiculous, and the extrapolations - ludicrous! I can't take any more of this. So glad my subscription ended last week or my comments would have ended up over the top for that garbage.
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:46 AM   #1664
Andrew Wilson
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Reading it right now...

Metabolic conditioning for football, by Inigo Mujika
http://youtu.be/aj6rFhZC-KU
http://youtu.be/2JCkMR4-3mw
http://youtu.be/7sICjnMzaWs
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:44 AM   #1665
Colin Starrett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson View Post

Andy Petranek:
"But you didn't do anything wrong!"
"he fully well knew what he was getting into"
"Crossfit is just f-ing hard. And that's just all there is to it."

WHAT?
Finally, a certified crossfit trainer who admits CF has fuck all to do with training and just about keeping score with who can endure the most pain. Hopefully the original trainer doesn't take his words to heart. She should feel bad. Rhabdo is completely fucked. This Crossfit attitude about treating it like some battle scar that can come with the territory is retarded. It's deadly. It may have long term consequences. It's a hindrance to actual training. One derives no benefit from having suffered through it whatsoever. It's not like the cool rough patch of skin one gets across their back from living under the bar. Butt arm isn't funny, it's ignorant. A class action suit is almost certainly going to occur if they keep this up.

And what a fucking logic fail by Andy. Here's an actual analogy to what she just did. Imagine you sold him a mountain bike, and the safety gear, and a quick disclaimer that mountain biking is dangerous (but a fuckload more fun than crossfit), and then, he agrees to hire you as his mountain bike trainer as well. And on the first day, instead of going over the basics and going through some basic white circle trails, you have him follow you down a double black diamond trail and he cracks his skull open. That's what you did to him.

And I'm tired of people using "hard" as a measure of effectiveness. You know what's actually quite hard, but only a few crossfitters actually do? Getting your squat up to 450+, or 200+ for a woman. You have to spend months and months under the bar, maybe years. Week in, week out, you have to get under the god damn bar, and do better than last time. But few crossfitters would actually be impressed with such a feat, because it took some specialization to get there. Nevermind that my newly minted 200+ lb female squatter will demolish every Lisa M in metcons within a few weeks of training for them, it just wouldn't matter. They'd call her an ant, until she spent a few months in a local box, then they'd advertise her; "look at what Crossfit made her."

And I might need to start following Lisa M more closely. What a complete trainwreck. Yeah, chastise your husband for getting a little winded on a bike, at least his achilles is still in one piece.

edit: oh wow I missed the other replies to that trainer, all saying she did good, and her agreeing. Jesus, warnings aren't good enough if you're a coach. A good coach ASSESSES what their clients can and can't do, and gets started in a safe manner. If a weightlifting coach put a client through a movement screen, found he lacked shoulder flexibility, and then had him work up to a max snatch on day one, resulting in a dislocated shoulder and elbow, guess what? He wouldn't get away with "well I told him snatching heavy is hard and dangerous for a newcomer!" He'd be ostracized from the weightlifting community.

And please can they stop acting like dehydration is a big factor? First of all, they aren't dehydrated. 99% of people who claim dehydration during training are really just a little thirsty. An extra half liter of water isn't the difference between a normal workout and rhabdo. Besides, elite athletes usually have a good idea about hydration and it's regulated automatically.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:23 PM   #1666
Steven Madison
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat McElhone View Post
I wrote that what, like 2 and half years ago. Did you see my original comment? Believed it then and still believe it now.

It is the strong willed person that can push themselves hard enough to get rhabdo. Intensity can be deadly.

All Tony Budding's tweets are from Greg Glassman. Nothing original. Just goes to show, at the HQ level, CF stopped evolving about 5year ago.
Hey, Pat, you stupid c*nt. How strong willed does a person have to be to perform 100+ jumping pullups?

Not very.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:44 PM   #1667
Andrew Wilson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Kissel View Post
The article just added in the journal about peaking is absolutely ABSURD. There's so much wrong with it that I don't really know where to begin. I'd love to hear Andrew's reasoning as to what the major faults are with the authors' rationale and how an argument against the proposed implementation is an excuse developing a program that would take time and effort, at best. No subscription necessary to view the PDF. I'm upset that some people will likely look at this article not knowing any better and become victim to the EXTREMELY BIASED AND PRESUMPTIVE ATTITUDE of writing that was utilized in this article. The data provided is far from being conclusive, the comparison are ridiculous, and the extrapolations - ludicrous! I can't take any more of this. So glad my subscription ended last week or my comments would have ended up over the top for that garbage.
Yeah

1. They're Assuming peaking comes down to the moment of competition, its actually the process of shaping sporting form over an annual or multi annual plan. The "two weeks of peaking" they're referring to is actually a period for supercompensation to take place via Long Term Delayed Effect which is why training is reduced: to recover and supercompensate. Reading this article, its quite obvious they have no idea about this nor any experience:

Quote:
If I understood well you are interested in the optimal planning of pre-competition period of Track&Field sprinters.
This is a very complicate issue because there are no universal answer to this question: all depend on the training program used by the athlete in the preceding preparation period.
I suggest you to read my articles about Block System training.
In Block System is not used Taper effect, but the Long Term Delayed Effect (LTDE) of concentrated SPP loads.
The LTDE and Taper are based on the same physiologic phenomenon of Super compensation, but they are two different training modalities.
Taper is used in the pre-competition period and has two consequent training stages: the “exhaustive” training work with a big volume and intensity of loads and the following stage with drastically reduced volume and intensity of training loads (“Reduced Training” – Costill et al. 1988 or “Tapering” - Houmard, Johns, 1994).
Usually, the use of Taper is finalized not to increase the energetic resources of athlete organism (in that moment these recourses must be already on a high level), but to activate the energetic potential of athletes organism before the competition stage.
LTDE of the concentrated strength loads is used at the beginning of preparation period to assure the increasing of the athlete organism energetic potential that permit the increasing of training effect of means used in the following training period.
In simple words, the use of Taper can be viewed as the sequence of two training stages with:
1) the loads of big volume and intensity,
2) the loads of low level of volume and intensity.
The use of LTDE can be viewed as the sequence of two training stages with:
1) the loads of high volume and low intensity,
2) the loads of low volume and high intensity.
Nevertheless, there are two other important differences between the use of Taper and the use of LTDE.

1. The first part of training plan with the use of LTDE (Block A) includes not “exhaustive”, but “concentrated” loads.
The word “concentrated” means “isolated from other” and “localized in limited time”.
For example: in speed-strength sport disciplines, in Block A are primarily used maximal strength overload exercises, therefore all the adaptive processes of the athlete organism are involved to increase his specific energetic potential. The volume of these loads achieves the maximal level of athlete not because the athlete uses a very high level of overload exercises in each training session, but because he uses only these kind of training sessions in this period where all the training time is dedicated primarily to one type of work and all “adaptive energy” of his organism is not “dispersed” for other works.
This doesn’t mean that the athlete must use hard strength exercises every day: the training loads in the microcycles of Block A must be organized rationally, they must not disturb the recovery processes and must assure the morphological – functional transformation. Only in this case it will be possible to obtain the increasing of the functional state of athlete organism (with it’s overreaching) in the subsequent training stage, Block B and C.

2. The second part of training plan with the use of LTDE isn’t a simple decrease of volume with the increasing of intensity of the same training loads, but it’s the change of loads emphasis.
The decrease of volume loads (i.e., the decrease of the number of repetition in overload exercises) have to begin at the end of Block A, because during the Block A the overload weight must be gradually increased . In Block B, the loads volume is decreased because are used more intensive training means (overload jumps, intensive bounces and short running starts). In this period also the loads (exercises) specificity must be gradually increased.

Yuri Verkhoshansky

Principles for training aimed at speed development Verkhoshansky


Speed training for high level athletes, Yuri Verkhoshansky

2. The Gorski quote is about the depth of the Soviet cyclists, not "peaking"; and Soviets are the creators of periodization and the conjugate sequence system- the inventors of "peaking" and LDTE, they completely missed that- they "stay up all the time" because they're training in prescribed training block in the conjugate sequence system.

3. They're picking their argument against events which are measured in seconds, fractions of seconds, and centimeters, millimeters, which have hundreds of variables other than the sportsman's peaking form that effects the performance: wind, angle of trajectory, environmental conditions, illness, performance psychology, injuries, technical and biomechanical alterations, tactical alterations; events where the slightest minimal alternation can drastically change performance outcome. They argue Maurice Greene's 9.87, 9.82, 9.80 and his inability to set a pr to beat Justin Gatlin; think about that. That's not a second. Not tenths of a second. Thats HUNDREDTHS OF A SECOND. Think of how much time that is in relation to moving your leg. That's the core of their argument against "peaking periodization"? The same applies to every event they mention, except the Ironman which the difference is collective. Maurice Greene and other sprinters frequently pull hamstrings and hip extensors, hince why Tyson Gay and Usain Bolt aren't setting PRs this month. These people should congratulate these athletes for being so consistent by HUNDREDTHS OF A SECOND in their maximum performance in dealing with these injuries.

4. Its complete conjecture. They aren't coaches of these elite athletes nor professonal sports scientists so their entire argument is based on their own assumption from watching youtube videos, reading wikipedia, and not examinations of specific physiological parameters in explosive strength, starting strength, maximum strength, reactive ability, maximal anaerobic power, maximal aerobic consumption, and maximal anaerobic threshold which evolves through the training process to peak form. They aren't around these athletes nor investigating their performance or the progression in training effect through the season. They don't know the detailed changes in training, sporting form, injuries or obstacles that interfer or maximize performance. And they aren't even providing legitimate, proven evidence gathered by themselves to back the argument. Anyone of the athletes they presented that didn't set a "PR" or "SB" in competition very well could have in training or in physiological parameters mentioned above and simply was not able to squeeze out every MILLIMETER AND CENTISECOND in their competition.

I want to look at that Nebraska study, but it isn't on pubmed but I know they're spinning it.

5. Where are their athletes in these competitions that didn't use "peaking" to compare to peak athletes to? If they're methods of "not peaking" are so superior they should be out performing athletes that do "peak" in the exact competition. But where are they? They can't say they have superior method to something and not have their own method in the same competition to compare to!

6. Brian Mackenzie is an endurance coach. He has the opportunity to produce a 13 minute 5k runner and an 11 hour 100 mile runner, one RAW with no prior background. I want to see him do it without periodization or peaking. Lets see it, Crossfit Endurance has been online for what 3 years? and he hasn't produced anything yet.

And finally, they are not looking a the COMPLETE evolution of the sportsman. By COMPLETE this means from age 13 to retirement. Usain Bolt DID NOT run a 9.58 as a 13 year old. Then how else did he gain that ability? ??????

If anyone wants to legitimately read articles on this subject the best place is here http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Article...0/Default.aspx
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:09 PM   #1668
Corey Kissel
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Unbelievable work, Andrew.

All of that spit out in less than a couple hours of my post and all i can say is thank your for taking the time to consider all of that information and provide the material and analysis to create an irrefutable counter-argument.

Your work is impeccable, and the value of your time is priceless on these forums.

Everyone needs to give a shout out your way for turning this thread into what it is soon becoming.

This is the definitive CrossFit methodology trumping thread.
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:26 PM   #1669
Matt Reiland
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Thanks Andrew for helping me ween off of the Kool-Aid. I've been clean for 5 weeks now, working hard to return to the level of fitness I was pre-Xfit. It's going to be a long hard road.
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:28 PM   #1670
Andrew Wilson
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hahaha thanks! Its really great to know all these posts are going to good use!

Quote:
This is the definitive CrossFit methodology trumping thread.
Unintentionally it really is!
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:11 PM
John Thomas
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