Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Fitness, Strength & CrossFit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-17-2012, 12:48 PM   #11
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

I'm out of my depth with the strength needs of Marine but I do know, once built that big squat and dl will be hard to hold onto for long.

If you're about to go into an intensive indoctrination I'd look to build rep strength with your current maxes and focus on the real test: running, lots of rucking with weight, swimming and the nutty PT stuff the services seem to like so well.
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 05:41 PM   #12
Jack Kroskey
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
I'm out of my depth with the strength needs of Marine but I do know, once built that big squat and dl will be hard to hold onto for long.

If you're about to go into an intensive indoctrination I'd look to build rep strength with your current maxes and focus on the real test: running, lots of rucking with weight, swimming and the nutty PT stuff the services seem to like so well.
No indoc, Just work/training. How about the idea of building up the squat/DL/Press so that when/if Pre Deployment workups come up instead of going from a 500# lift to a 350# lift, I go from 575 to a 400 or whatever. (Just round random numbers for discussions sake.)

Now that we've decided on lifts running etc, lets talk sets reps... What to use and what to cycle through. Im horrible at this. Hitting mass amounts of reps in the SQ/DL would obviously come at the end of a cycle, optimally right before a workup or physically intensive school.
Jack Kroskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 08:20 PM   #13
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Kroskey View Post
No indoc, Just work/training. How about the idea of building up the squat/DL/Press so that when/if Pre Deployment workups come up instead of going from a 500# lift to a 350# lift, I go from 575 to a 400 or whatever. (Just round random numbers for discussions sake.)

Now that we've decided on lifts running etc, lets talk sets reps... What to use and what to cycle through. Im horrible at this. Hitting mass amounts of reps in the SQ/DL would obviously come at the end of a cycle, optimally right before a workup or physically intensive school.


A less important issue probably. If you are settled on two days in the gym (makes sense) you're looking at a pretty simple progression. Low frequency/higher intensity.

How are you built? long limbs or short?
what have you used in the past to get to current numbers?
do you have spotters?
what are you good at? reps or singles?
what lift do you love, which do you hate?


Sounds like you're squarely in intermediate territory where progress is about to slow.

my gut reaction is an A/B/ Split:
A Press and Squat,
B Push Press and DL

Plenty of set/rep schemes that will work. No matter what they'll need to be based on a one day a week squat and one day pull. I am a fan of 531, also a fan of the old school
54321 to a top 80-95% single with a either a couple big back off sets or 3x3 with pauses squats or deficit DL. Another favorite is to use the Texas method spread over 2 days instead of 3.


Really sets and reps are pretty unimportant, what's important is getting the right amount of volume (for you) in and being recovered enough to give time to your other background goals. Better question, what kind of rep/set progressions do you like?
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 12:38 PM   #14
Jack Kroskey
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
A less important issue probably. If you are settled on two days in the gym (makes sense) you're looking at a pretty simple progression. Low frequency/higher intensity.

How are you built? long limbs or short?
what have you used in the past to get to current numbers?
do you have spotters?
what are you good at? reps or singles?
what lift do you love, which do you hate?


Sounds like you're squarely in intermediate territory where progress is about to slow.

my gut reaction is an A/B/ Split:
A Press and Squat,
B Push Press and DL

Plenty of set/rep schemes that will work. No matter what they'll need to be based on a one day a week squat and one day pull. I am a fan of 531, also a fan of the old school
54321 to a top 80-95% single with a either a couple big back off sets or 3x3 with pauses squats or deficit DL. Another favorite is to use the Texas method spread over 2 days instead of 3.


Really sets and reps are pretty unimportant, what's important is getting the right amount of volume (for you) in and being recovered enough to give time to your other background goals. Better question, what kind of rep/set progressions do you like?

Im fairly long limbed. I used a linear progression for all of my past strength work until I couldn't hit my goal reps (3x5) then just reset. Basic Starting Strength Rippetoe type stuff. Squat/Deadlift/Press/Clean. After that I focused on doubles/triples for a month or so utilizing 75-85% of my 1RM. It worked well for me as those are my favorite lifts. I particularly enjoy Clean and Jerk, DL, and Squat. Press is ok, I am just wary of overdoing the press movement and causing any imbalance or impingement.

Reps don't particularly bother me. For squats I like to work with doubles or triples and occasionally venture into 5, I also like hitting some 20 Rep sets once as well. Deadlift 3-5, Press 5 or less, and clean/c&j 3 or less.

Im a bit OCD with programming and like to have hard numbers set for me. When I came back from my last deployment I could barely squat 205 for 2 reps, and wasn't even close to parallel. Having set #s ahead of me helpd me track progress easily and and made me look forward to future workouts.
Jack Kroskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 05:33 PM   #15
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

Well if you can handle the loosey goosey nature of having an AMRAP set, 531 is a very good fit.

Here's why.
I think LP works best 3 days a week..I also think you're getting close to it not working.

Long Limbed lifters do well with rep work. People with long levers have pronounced sticking points. One of the easiest sticking point fixers are reps, learning to strain through the hard part of the lift. A better method is pauses, pause squats and DL off a block. You might have enough time for this.

Being as your recovery will ebb and flow with running and rucking and job duties, you need to autoregulate.

If you enjoy a 20 reps squat, you will probably enjoy AMRAP sets.
I'm long limbed and it worked well for me....I know that's weak but I've sen it happen several times with folks of less than ideal proportions.


I have plenty of other idea but that's my gut reaction. The templates is set, you have basic set template to finish every day and you set a goal with each session. If the squat calls for 335x1 you are going to be shooting for 5 or so...it's very motivating.
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 09:10 PM   #16
Jack Kroskey
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
Well if you can handle the loosey goosey nature of having an AMRAP set, 531 is a very good fit.

Here's why.
I think LP works best 3 days a week..I also think you're getting close to it not working.

Long Limbed lifters do well with rep work. People with long levers have pronounced sticking points. One of the easiest sticking point fixers are reps, learning to strain through the hard part of the lift. A better method is pauses, pause squats and DL off a block. You might have enough time for this.

Being as your recovery will ebb and flow with running and rucking and job duties, you need to autoregulate.

If you enjoy a 20 reps squat, you will probably enjoy AMRAP sets.
I'm long limbed and it worked well for me....I know that's weak but I've sen it happen several times with folks of less than ideal proportions.


I have plenty of other idea but that's my gut reaction. The templates is set, you have basic set template to finish every day and you set a goal with each session. If the squat calls for 335x1 you are going to be shooting for 5 or so...it's very motivating.
Sounds solid. So go through the 5/3/1 book, template, and break it down into 2 days of lifting? Correct? How would you cycle 5/3/1 with other rep sets schemes? IE: 5/3/1 for so many weeks, then a back off week, then 3 weeks of 20 rep squats etc
Jack Kroskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2012, 03:54 AM   #17
Patrick Haskell
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 45
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Kroskey View Post
Sounds solid. So go through the 5/3/1 book, template, and break it down into 2 days of lifting? Correct? How would you cycle 5/3/1 with other rep sets schemes? IE: 5/3/1 for so many weeks, then a back off week, then 3 weeks of 20 rep squats etc
Just do the program, Jack. It doesn't have to be complicatead to work. One strength of the 531 is that you can make long-term progress with it and you don't have to tinker with the fundamentals much. You'll get your high-rep days in. If anything, you might find yourself missing the heavy single or double for the first few cycles. Read the e-book. You'll get a chance to work that OCD when you start wondering how to fit assistance exercises into your already busy program.
Patrick Haskell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2012, 10:06 AM   #18
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Kroskey View Post
Sounds solid. So go through the 5/3/1 book, template, and break it down into 2 days of lifting? Correct? How would you cycle 5/3/1 with other rep sets schemes? IE: 5/3/1 for so many weeks, then a back off week, then 3 weeks of 20 rep squats etc

The book has a two day option which is solid.

I wouldn't plan on cycling other reps schemes until I hit my goals strength wise.

Doing 20 rep squats is a whole other deal but about the easiest thing in the world to program...You just have one day a week where that's all you do, start at 100 pounds off your best 20 reps squat set and add 10-20 pounds a week until you stall. Last time i did this it was 6 pretty straightforward weeks and I stopped before I stalled...So the writing on the wall, could have gone one more week at most and couldn't keep myself from adding squat days. Ultimately, 20 reppers are fun but the recovery cost is high at my age.


As a side note, I will take another run this year possibly two, but won't go over 6 weeks of it.
Back on point.... Just ride the 531 until you're banging reps with your old maxes and then test your 20 rep as a down set some day. I bet you'll find it's gone up fine.
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 09:51 AM   #19
Jack Kroskey
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Default

Check Rog. Looks like Ive got all the info I need to get this started. I'll stick with the 5/3/1 for awhile. Many thanks for all the information and help Gents. I'll try to update this thread occasionally and let everyone know how my progress is going. If there is anything you would like to add please feel free as I am all ears/eyes.
Jack Kroskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 10:30 PM   #20
David Boyle
Senior Member
 
David Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: West Coast/AZ
Posts: 635
Default

I've been the USMC for 13 years now. I've seen great gains in strength, stamina, power w/ 531. I tweaked it somewhat so I could fit in some olympic lifting here and there. I did that for a solid 4 months before the SNCO career course and I performed very well...CALs, O-course PT, combat conditioning, etc etc. All I did was mix in some 5ks, swimming, and I would perform the MARSOC shortcard like 2 times a week to keep my body weight strength up. I'm sure you get it dialed in...your numbers look real solid and strong...good job.
__________________
"One must try everyday to expand one's limits."
~Mas Oyama~
David Boyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator