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Old 01-27-2009, 09:36 AM   #41
Jay Cohen
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This thread just keeps getting better and better.
Thanks everyone.

Barry, like your website, now just have to think if putting out the 40 bucks for you book will enable me to become a faster runner. Not that the book isn't dead on, but rather if I can follow the book to the track.
If you ever offer workshops or seminars out toward the east coast, please let us/me know.

Jay
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:58 AM   #42
Barry Ross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris H Laing View Post
Can you explain how to use the algorithm for those of us who don't quite get it. Also, could you provide the algorithm for a male runner?

I'm interested in trying out this kind of sprinting work, and it seems more quantifiable than running at an arbitrary 80% of max (like you stated above)
I can't give you the algorithm because it is patented (Rice University).
We have the exclusive rights to it.
You can get a full explantion of it www.asrspeed.com

You can find the algorithm itself on several research papers of Weyand, Bundle, et al.

Be forwarned, it doesn't work the way you would think it would!
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:05 AM   #43
Barry Ross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Cohen View Post
This thread just keeps getting better and better.
Thanks everyone.

Barry, like your website, now just have to think if putting out the 40 bucks for you book will enable me to become a faster runner. Not that the book isn't dead on, but rather if I can follow the book to the track.
If you ever offer workshops or seminars out toward the east coast, please let us/me know.

Jay
I will be presenting at a seminar on April14-15 at SMU in Texas. The list of invitees include Dr Weyand, my partner Ken Jakalski and I believe several very will known names in the "speed game".

Not quite the east coast but midway between you and I, LOL.
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:19 AM   #44
Chris Forbis
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Originally Posted by Barry Ross View Post
I can't give you the algorithm because it is patented (Rice University).
Sweet. Go Owls. (Rice alum here.)
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:10 AM   #45
Jay Cohen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Ross View Post
I will be presenting at a seminar on April14-15 at SMU in Texas. The list of invitees include Dr Weyand, my partner Ken Jakalski and I believe several very will known names in the "speed game".

Not quite the east coast but midway between you and I, LOL.
Barry, thanks for the reply. I doubt if I can make it, but will keep your book on my to buy list.
Jay
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:42 PM   #46
Donald Lee
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Going along with Barry Ross's ideas regarding Mass Specific Force (MSF) and Rate of Force Development, does anybody think switching the deadlifts-for a sprinter who has achieved an over 3x BW deadlift-to the Olympic lifts would be more effective? I would reckon, by switching the deadlifts for the Olympic lifts, not as much time would have to be spent on plyometrics.
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Old 02-06-2009, 03:51 PM   #47
Barry Ross
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Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
Going along with Barry Ross's ideas regarding Mass Specific Force (MSF) and Rate of Force Development, does anybody think switching the deadlifts-for a sprinter who has achieved an over 3x BW deadlift-to the Olympic lifts would be more effective? I would reckon, by switching the deadlifts for the Olympic lifts, not as much time would have to be spent on plyometrics.
It would not be more effective...I know that because that's how I started (see the article posted at the beginning of this thread. Power work was included.)
Running fast creates more necessary plyometric work than any weight training could accomplish.
Elite runners will apply force >4x mass in in less than 0.05s (first half of stance phase)...with one leg. The second half of the stance phase shows no force application at all. Rather, it is during that time that the runners grounded foot combined with the runners inertia creates a very powerful eccentric stretch--in approximately the same amount of time it took to apply support force. Oly lifts are not going to come anywhere near the speed and intensity of the eccentric work of running at high speed. Which is exactly why I dropped all Oly and other such lifts.
One other thing to consider is that the purpose of heavy strength training is to increase the number of the largest, fastest-firing moto units that provide speed endurance. Oly lifts are not good for that purpose either.
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:18 PM   #48
Donald Lee
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It would not be more effective...I know that because that's how I started (see the article posted at the beginning of this thread. Power work was included.)
Running fast creates more necessary plyometric work than any weight training could accomplish.
Elite runners will apply force >4x mass in in less than 0.05s (first half of stance phase)...with one leg. The second half of the stance phase shows no force application at all. Rather, it is during that time that the runners grounded foot combined with the runners inertia creates a very powerful eccentric stretch--in approximately the same amount of time it took to apply support force. Oly lifts are not going to come anywhere near the speed and intensity of the eccentric work of running at high speed. Which is exactly why I dropped all Oly and other such lifts.
One other thing to consider is that the purpose of heavy strength training is to increase the number of the largest, fastest-firing moto units that provide speed endurance. Oly lifts are not good for that purpose either.
I guess what you are saying is that strength-speed does not transfer as well as maximal strength itself to the speed-strength required in running? I was just pondering whether when you reach some point at which you have a really high, maybe even 3.5-4x bodyweight deadlift, whether the deadlift itself would no longer be of much benefit. Will you be able to recruit more of the largest, fastest-firing motor units while sprinting from continued focus on deadlifting or focusing on something that requires more power?

That was my train of thought, but thanks for still checking up on this thread.
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:21 PM   #49
Barry Ross
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Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
I guess what you are saying is that strength-speed does not transfer as well as maximal strength itself to the speed-strength required in running? I was just pondering whether when you reach some point at which you have a really high, maybe even 3.5-4x bodyweight deadlift, whether the deadlift itself would no longer be of much benefit. Will you be able to recruit more of the largest, fastest-firing motor units while sprinting from continued focus on deadlifting or focusing on something that requires more power?

That was my train of thought, but thanks for still checking up on this thread.
There are 3 aspects here.
1. Increasing strength in order to have more motor units to recruit.
2. Increasing storage and release of elastic energy
3. Increasing rate of force delivery.

1=Heavy lifting (deadlift or squat or?) for recruitment
2=Plyometrics for storage and release of elastic energy
3=? for increasing rate of force delivery

The simple answer to #3 has been power lifts, but as stated earlier, power lifts have significantly slower rates of force delivery than just running fast.
So why not just run fast to get faster?

The speed limit for every runner, regardless of training level, is the amount of support force (in excess of mass) delivered to the running surface during decreasing ground contact times.
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Old 02-09-2009, 08:21 PM   #50
Jakub Kruhlik
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http://www.bearpowered.com

is this the book being discussed? I read the originl article but now want to buy the book.
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