Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Nutrition > General Nutrition

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2007, 06:27 AM   #11
Mike ODonnell
Senior Member
 
Mike ODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,596
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Forbis View Post
My official tally was +21.1 pounds in 12 weeks. Now I'm working on metcon.
Wow....nicely done Chris!! So much for that "hard gainer" label!
__________________
Fitness Spotlight
The IF Life
Mike ODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2007, 08:02 AM   #12
Chris Forbis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 836
Default

Yeah, it was like I found the anabolic switch...
Chris Forbis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2007, 11:25 AM   #13
Scotty Hagnas
Member
 
Scotty Hagnas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 126
Default

Nice, Chris!

As a "hardgainer" myself, I have found that I can gain pretty easily on IF. I never could on the conventional diets, well not muscle anyway. (I could pack on fat, though)

Shannon-

You'll want to drop the carbs way down if you are doing IF. If your body is relying on carbs and excessive protein for energy (which it almost certainly is), you will catabolize muscle tissue like crazy when you start to fast. One really needs to be on a low carb diet when doing IF to optimize fat burning and nitrogen retention(muscle sparing).

I'd ditch most of the cardio if you are trying to gain mass. If you need it for stress reduction, I'd examine the other areas of your life and try to reduce stressors there first. Combating life stress by adding yet another activity the body perceives as stress will not help on the health and longevity front, nor will it help your body adapt to the stress of heavy lifting. (mass gain) You can easily regain your conditioning level once you are at your desired weight.

Good luck!

Scotty Hagnas
CrossFit Portland
Scotty Hagnas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2007, 08:29 PM   #14
Shannon Clark
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Forbis View Post
I always find my body handles carbs better on the first meal coming off an IF. So you may find it beneficially to load up on the fat at the end of your feed period.

In general, I think you can get by with a slightly lower total caloric intake to gain weight on IF.

And I forgot to mention it, but Mike addressed it. I think a low activity level was just as important as food intake for my weight gain. I had 3 active days a week. 2 were heavy lifting, the third was short sprints.

My official tally was +21.1 pounds in 12 weeks. Now I'm working on metcon.
How much of your 21 pounds was lean though? The issue with fats though, I enter the fast right after my post-workout meal so I would think post workout you wouldn't want to be high in fats...no? And just out of curiosity (sorry probably a dumb question) but what is metcon? I've seen it referred to a few times and am not quite sure.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty Hagnas View Post
Nice, Chris!

As a "hardgainer" myself, I have found that I can gain pretty easily on IF. I never could on the conventional diets, well not muscle anyway. (I could pack on fat, though)

Shannon-

You'll want to drop the carbs way down if you are doing IF. If your body is relying on carbs and excessive protein for energy (which it almost certainly is), you will catabolize muscle tissue like crazy when you start to fast. One really needs to be on a low carb diet when doing IF to optimize fat burning and nitrogen retention(muscle sparing).

I'd ditch most of the cardio if you are trying to gain mass. If you need it for stress reduction, I'd examine the other areas of your life and try to reduce stressors there first. Combating life stress by adding yet another activity the body perceives as stress will not help on the health and longevity front, nor will it help your body adapt to the stress of heavy lifting. (mass gain) You can easily regain your conditioning level once you are at your desired weight.

Good luck!

Scotty Hagnas
CrossFit Portland
How come you'd drop muscle mass though on higher carbs/protein but not with fat? I would think if anything the more protein would make it muscle sparing.

I can see the cardio issue though..it's mostly a psychological issue with me I think. How would just straight walking be? still too detrimental?
Shannon Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 06:50 AM   #15
Chris Forbis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 836
Default

21 pounds wasn't all lean, but if you want to be serious about mass gain you will have to accept a little fat gain. I find it fairly easy to drop the fat afterwards.

Metcon is metabolic conditioning. "Being in shape." Things like Crossfit WODs typically qualify as metcon.

The fuel your body burns during a fast (ideally) is fat. Consuming too many carbs jeopardizes your body's ability to adapt to this fat burning. That's how I see it at least.
Chris Forbis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 03:02 PM   #16
Daniel Myers
Member
 
Daniel Myers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 92
Default

What's your target weight? If you want to gain 5-10 pounds just to fill out, then that's pretty easy to do by just increasing your intake a little bit. If you want to gain much more, I think you'll have better success by focusing like a laser on mass gain and making it the only goal of your training for a couple of months. The first situation is definitely compatible with IF; the second, maybe not, depending on your personality and eating habits.

I went from 170 to 185 in about 3 months -- without losing my six pack -- by drinking more milk each day and lifting heavy three times a week.
__________________
"The enlightened never cease forging themselves."
-- Morihei Ueshiba
Daniel Myers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 08:07 PM   #17
Daniel Myers
Member
 
Daniel Myers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 92
Default

I just re-read the initial post, and 5'6" and 112 pounds is pretty dang skinny. If those numbers are right, just forget about anything fancy and start squatting and drinking a gallon of milk per day. The most direct route will be the best.
__________________
"The enlightened never cease forging themselves."
-- Morihei Ueshiba
Daniel Myers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 10:35 PM   #18
Shannon Clark
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 16
Default

Yah, I'm 5'6" and 112...but I am a girl too, so that makes it a little less worse...only a little.

I can see the point with the fat but I was thinking as long as I supplied enough slow digesting protein I may be able to overcome it. I will likely add some fat though since it's going to make getting in the calories easier.

I do want to keep going with IF though, I am really liking it in terms of scheduling and just how I generally feel. If I can get results I likely may stay on it long term. Having to only worry about preparing meals twice a day is so nice.
Shannon Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 06:17 AM   #19
Daniel Myers
Member
 
Daniel Myers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 92
Default

My apologies, Shannon. Obviously, I didn't read that first post closely enough. Super Squats is probably not the program for you.

In Ripped, Clarence Bass talks about getting lean first, and then eating just a little more than your maintenance level, so that you gain muscle with the minimal amount of fat. This is a slow way to gain, since you're only going a few hundred calories over maintenance per day, but it's very easy to do, provided you have a good handle on your number of maintenace calories. Like I said, I did it by drinking a little more milk each day, but that won't work for everybody.

Also, in my case, the visual effect of any fat I gained was more than offset by the impact of the extra muscle.
__________________
"The enlightened never cease forging themselves."
-- Morihei Ueshiba
Daniel Myers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 04:56 PM   #20
Scotty Hagnas
Member
 
Scotty Hagnas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 126
Default

Hi Shannon-

Additional walks are a great idea, particularly if you can take them outside in the woods or countryside!

From looking at the macronutrient ratios that you posted, you will have a metabolism very efficient at using glucose. The very large protein intake is almost certainly being partly converted to glucose for energy, as well. As you probably know, your glucose stores don't last very long. If they run out, as they would if you begin a fast, your body is used to breaking down protein for it's glucose. It will go right after your muscle tissue to provide this glucose.

If you are eating low carb, your body will become efficient at metabolizing ketones made from the breakdown of fats, and will try to conserve what glucose it has. Low carb diets are muscle sparing. You may need to get your protein intake a bit lower, though - your body may well not make the full conversion to burning ketones, since it can always get some glucose from the excessive protein.

Good luck!

Scotty Hagnas
CrossFit Portland
Scotty Hagnas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:43 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator