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Old 06-29-2007, 06:12 PM   #31
Robert Allison
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Greg,

I agree with most everything you said... I think that is why I appreciate the thinking of people like DeVany & Frank Forencich. Art couches his approach in some fairly scientific jargon, but his basics are pretty simple: be active every day, do some intense resistance training 2-3 x wk. Forencich also espouses a KISS approach; I have read both of his books and gleaned a ton of useful info from them as well.

I guess I'm somewhat fortunate in that my vocation affords me the opportunity to explore a lot of these ideas. But even if it didn't, I would still come to the PM for my geek fix. But then again, you're just as likely to find me talking health & fitness with someone in a hookah bar... how's that for balance?
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:04 PM   #32
Mark Fenner
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Rant begin:

I tend to agree with virtually everything that Frank Forencich has to say.
I do too. But ... there's basically no reason behind my agreement beside "it makes me feel warm and fuzzy". He cites barely any references; many arguments are strained. Still, the IDEAS resonate with me.

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I think people tend to really over think this stuff, as they do with diet.
It's only overthinking if you were right to begin with. Otherwise, it needs more thought.

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Yet, people will endlessly debate whether Kelley Baggets protocol is better or worse than Devany's, or whether KB training is better than crossfit, for example.
It's not a matter of argument: Baggets protocols are better ... for improving vertical jump. That's the entire goal of his program. People follow his program and get better vertical jumps. DeVany's might be better for health and longevity. But I don't know that this have been well quantified: if you're trying to add decades to your life and you've only had your protocol around for five (?) years, there can't be much evidence of efficacy.

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Stop worrying about muscle fibers and energy systems, and all kinds of scientific jargon. Get your ass outside and move!
I know you are saying this in a well intentioned sense, but it could be taken the wrong way. For example, "stop worrying about Internet discussions and all kinds of idiots debating details. Get _your_ ass outside and move"

In reality, you are following (and contributing to) the discussion for some reason that suits your purposes. I'm doing the same. We are also both following the work/play/rest/post ratio that suits our purposes. I don't know, but performance menu forum participants don't seem like the typical Internet jockeys who never get around to __doing__.

Now, back to motor units, energy systems, and that ilk. I am a scientist. Part of my mental make-up is understanding the world around me: how it works, what happens if I push here, how can I make that do something. PM seems to like the idea of power bias; I'm curious as to the physiological basis of power and hence I'd like to know the physiology behind strength and speed. It seems that this community would also be interested in that quest.

In addition, I find these discussions more interesting, more productive, and less aggravating than TV trash. This is physical rest/recovery time for me and mental stimulation time.

Regards,
Mark
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:09 PM   #33
Mark Fenner
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I'm typically an anal perfectionist <snip> have basically done a 180 degree turn in my ways. I have basically adopted that "Eh, who cares, as long as you get the main picture, you're good" type of mentality.
Greg,

Dan John mentioned something to the effect of if you are very well-planned in your day-to-day, you need a lot of randomness (chaos) in your workout. If your days are beyond your control, then well-planned workouts will benefit you. This was tied to the idea that we have a limited capacity to display free will on any given day, week, month, etc.

Regards,
Mark
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Old 06-30-2007, 10:29 AM   #34
Greg Battaglia
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Great posts. I agree with what you've all said.
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:55 PM   #35
Danny John
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I actually have a whole workshop on this idea. You see, I think that random crazy workouts are fine...in their place. One of the reasons I have come to applaud "Curves" is that they give a woman (this is a sexist institution and we need to deal with that...could you image a "Mens Only" club opening up?) who have Soccer Mom lives a chance to actually cool down by doing the same thing.

I don't feel like retyping a two hour talk, but I'm glad you mentioned this: I feel strongly that crazy workouts only work with students, "Office Space" people and the like. When I am full time full time (my days go Seven to Midnight...with dad stuff and writing and teaching and ...) the last thing I need is some bizarre crap. I crave three sets of eight with one minute rest on those days...
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:15 PM   #36
Dave Van Skike
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I actually have a whole workshop on this idea. You see, I think that random crazy workouts are fine...in their place. One of the reasons I have come to applaud "Curves" is that they give a woman (this is a sexist institution and we need to deal with that...could you image a "Mens Only" club opening up?) who have Soccer Mom lives a chance to actually cool down by doing the same thing.

I don't feel like retyping a two hour talk, but I'm glad you mentioned this: I feel strongly that crazy workouts only work with students, "Office Space" people and the like. When I am full time full time (my days go Seven to Midnight...with dad stuff and writing and teaching and ...) the last thing I need is some bizarre crap. I crave three sets of eight with one minute rest on those days...
Bingo.
how simple can I make it and get to the essential "doing-ness" of the activity.

For me the Gym needs to be like meditation. I squat. I pull. I press....I try to do it better each time, once I'm doing it not just well but beautifully, add weight til it's doable but ugly... and start again.....

It's one of the things I liked about very straightforward progressions~OLAD, 5x5, EDT, timed kettlebell sets... there is rhythm, all you need to do is focus and you can feel yourself getting better in measure-able ways. Currently on a Bryce Lane's jag, doing the 20/50.
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