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Old 07-03-2007, 09:13 PM   #1
Neal Winkler
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Default Why lift anything but raw?

Maybe it's because I don't lift big weights, but I just don't get the point of lifting with squat suits and bench shirts.

What if I made some robot arms that still required me to exert my maximal muscular effort, but at the same time allowed me to lift 1,000,000 pounds, then I went around telling people that I lifted 1,000,000 pounds? I honestly don't see the difference between that and squats suits.

If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.
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Old 07-03-2007, 10:29 PM   #2
Garrett Smith
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No argument here...
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Old 07-03-2007, 11:28 PM   #3
Dave Van Skike
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To compete....I have no idea why someone just screwing around a gym would use a suit.

If you want to compete in powerlifting you go to where the good guys are...most of those are in gear equipped organizations. That is the baseline. it's that simple. You want to compete with the best, you go to where they are, you use what they use. You don't show up to a local bike race on your 3 speed chuffy and expect to clean up.. you roll the same gear as the competition. That's not cheating, it's playing along.

That said, everyone squatting a huge amount in a suit can squat very big out of suit.
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Old 07-04-2007, 04:21 AM   #4
Yvana van den Hork
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There's something to be said for using straps, but even there I'm both too lazy and a bit much of a chicken to use them. E.g. I'd rather give up on a deadlift or BOR because of lacking grip than because my back gives up.

Re grip , a slimmer bar helped TONS!

As for the actual gear (ply suits etc.) for powerlifting (not the same as weight lifting, at least this is how it is pereceived), I can understand how it came about. But what about those who want to lift RAW at meets?

A friend of mine started out as a powerlifter, but because she disliked the gear (suits, wraps etc.) decided to take up Olympic lifting instead, because this is done without suits.
Anyone who can relate?
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:17 AM   #5
Mike ODonnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Winkler View Post
What if I made some robot arms that still required me to exert my maximal muscular effort, but at the same time allowed me to lift 1,000,000 pounds
That would be sweeet! I'd order a pair.....Robot arms go!
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:05 AM   #6
Ken Urakawa
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Not that I necessarily agree, but I remembered reading about Louie Simmons' take on equipment. Interesting perspective if nothing else: http://www.westside-barbell.com/Arti...ing%20Back.pdf

"Nothing has changed since powerlifting began. Everyone looks for an edge. That's simply sport. I remember 20 years ago some knee wraps had a rubber lining. Bill Kazmaier had a pair of shoes that were supposed to be worth $1000. In 1979 at the North American Championships in Canada, Fred Hatfield (Dr. Squat) showed up at the equipment check with a pair of knee wraps make of jock strap waist bands. The IPF ref looked at them and said he couldn't wear them. They were twice as thick as normal wraps. But Fred won the argument and proceeded to break Ron Collins world record squat."
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:50 AM   #7
Neal Winkler
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Dave, but what if I made a powerlifting federation that allowed the robot arms, and like I said, you still had to be strong to use them.

For example, in my new powerlifting federation you get to use robot legs, and the robot legs allow you to get out of them what you put in. Let's say they increase your strength by 10 times, so someone that can squat 800 pounds raw can now squat 8000#, and someone that squat 900# raw can now squat 9000#. Therefore, you still have to be strong and put in hard work to win the competition but what the hell was the point of using the damn robot legs?

If you agree that my new powerlifting federation is silly, then you must follow this to it's logical conclusion - squat suits and bench suits are pointless too.

Now, I am willing to follow all this to it's logical conclusion, because I try to be as honest with myself as I can. Let me take down some other sports too.

For example, creating track shoes and manipulating the tracks themselves to make people run faster is silly for the same reason powerlifting suits are silly. What the hell do I care that you took .01 seconds off the world record 100m time? You didn't do it!!! You're shoes did, or the new tracks did! Or, maybe you in fact did do it... but we'll never know will we?!?!?!?!

Hey swimmer guys and gals, yeah, I'm talking to you now. Wow, congradulations, you have a new body suit that allows you to glide through he water like a shark, wow, you're so awesome to circumvent true human potential like that, it must make you feel special.

I could go on but I digress.

Here's what needs to be done to save sport:

1) Go back to ancient greece style and make everyone be naked.

or a better option...

2) Make a standard set of rules that have clothing/environment minimize performance enhancement, and stick to them so long as sport exists so that records can truely be compared accross time.
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Old 07-04-2007, 12:07 PM   #8
Rick Deckart
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Neal, no offense but what is your point? That using gear, all kind of gear is silly? Your example is silly but illustrates a very profound lack of understanding what gear in the context of powerlifting does and how it works. Sorry but I have a distinct dislike of arguments based on hearsay or believes without the slightest first person experience of the issues at hand. If you don't like gear this is fine, but who cares?
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Old 07-04-2007, 12:37 PM   #9
Dave Van Skike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Winkler View Post
Dave, but what if I made a powerlifting federation that allowed the robot arms, and like I said, you still had to be strong to use them.

For example, in my new powerlifting federation you get to use robot legs, and the robot legs allow you to get out of them what you put in. Let's say they increase your strength by 10 times, so someone that can squat 800 pounds raw can now squat 8000#, and someone that squat 900# raw can now squat 9000#. Therefore, you still have to be strong and put in hard work to win the competition but what the hell was the point of using the damn robot legs?

If you agree that my new powerlifting federation is silly, then you must follow this to it's logical conclusion - squat suits and bench suits are pointless too.

Now, I am willing to follow all this to it's logical conclusion, because I try to be as honest with myself as I can. Let me take down some other sports too.

For example, creating track shoes and manipulating the tracks themselves to make people run faster is silly for the same reason powerlifting suits are silly. What the hell do I care that you took .01 seconds off the world record 100m time? You didn't do it!!! You're shoes did, or the new tracks did! Or, maybe you in fact did do it... but we'll never know will we?!?!?!?!

Hey swimmer guys and gals, yeah, I'm talking to you now. Wow, congradulations, you have a new body suit that allows you to glide through he water like a shark, wow, you're so awesome to circumvent true human potential like that, it must make you feel special.

I could go on but I digress.

Here's what needs to be done to save sport:

1) Go back to ancient greece style and make everyone be naked.

or a better option...

2) Make a standard set of rules that have clothing/environment minimize performance enhancement, and stick to them so long as sport exists so that records can truely be compared accross time.
There has been several attempts at raw federations. Another one might be welcome. No sport will ever be comparable across time. Who cares?
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:00 PM   #10
Neal Winkler
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Quote:
Neal, no offense but what is your point?
That there is no difference between robot legs and squat suits. My argument goes something like this:

1) If robot legs are silly, then squat suits are silly
2) Robot legs are silly
3) Therefore, squat suits are silly

Quote:
Your example is silly but illustrates a very profound lack of understanding what gear in the context of powerlifting does and how it works.
The suits store up energy during the descent and allow you to bounce out of the bottom. That's why they work better for the squat and bench and don't help as much in the deadlift. What about the context in powerlifting am I missing that would help me to see why it is different than robot legs? Like I said in my original post, if I'm wrong I welcome someone to explain to me better.

Quote:
Sorry but I have a distinct dislike of arguments based on hearsay or believes without the slightest first person experience of the issues at hand.
I already stated in my first post that I may be missing something because of my lack of first person experience, showing that I was well aware that might be my problem. But instead of you explaining the first person experience that would be required to enlighten me, all you gave me was a grumpy response. Don't worry though, I won't hold it against you, maybe you're just having a bad day. Here's a smile to make you feel better.

Quote:
If you don't like gear this is fine, but who cares?
Well, if my arguement is sound, hopefully everyone that likes squat suits because it would show an inconsitency in their thinking, and we should all strive to remove inconsistencies from the set of our beliefs.
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