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Old 09-06-2007, 08:58 AM   #11
Mark Joseph Limbaga
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A strength foundation is definitely important to a fighter. however, let us also consider another factor that we must address: Work capacity

It would be very beneficial to a fighter if you can increase his work capacity since this will make him a stronger and more conditioned fighter.

For the off-season, a starting strength type program would do great and for the pre-fight roughyl 16 weeks away, ME black box type training and for roughly 12 weeks till a few days to a fight, a density training type program may work really well.

I've used this on a couple of fighters, swimmers a triathlete and a whole collegiate basketball team, so far its been working wonders.

The one thing I have noticed is that if you do it right, you can increase the conditioning of the fighters while increasing their strength at the same time. A big plus for any fighter since this would just mean more and harder strikes, more ground control and stronger slams.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:54 AM   #12
Robb Wolf
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Mark-
Do you track training volume any specific way? how do you vary the workloads...just by feel or any planning?

I found Glen's training to necessitate a day to day approach. A general plan but he might be so torched from the previous evenings sparring we had to completely shift gears for today's training.
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Mark-
Do you track training volume any specific way? how do you vary the workloads...just by feel or any planning?
two ways that I track training volume, more specifically amoutn of work done...

total tonnage and total work done over a specific time.
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Old 09-18-2007, 02:42 AM   #14
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Would improving work capacity improve how long and how hard you can train? If so how do I do that?
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:02 AM   #15
Anton Emery
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Hi Everyone,

Just joined this forum. This is a topic i have thought about alot, and i can't say i have come up with any sort of definitive answer. I have been doing brazillian juijitsu for a few years. I have not really done much of the striking part of MMA though.

From my own experience I can say that i didnt really notice an improvement on the mat until i started doing Ross Enamait's workouts. Before that i had been lifting weights for several years, mostly body building routines in the beginning and then more full body compound lifts type of workouts. At 5'10" 155 lbs i was never that strong, but i wasnt overly weak. To my knowledge not many of my grappling partners never trained with weights, but i never felt i had a significant strength edge.

A few months after doing some of the various strength and conditioning routines out of Ross's Infinite Intensity i had people commenting that i felt super strong on the mat, and asking what i had been doing. I find it funny that the Ross stuff had made a big difference, while a few years of weight training had not. With Ross i was maybe doing one day a week of maximal effort strength training. I think perhaps my body learned to function better as a unit due to the new stimulus of the various bodyweight exercises and drills.

That was back in Florida and now i live in Portland Oregon and train at Straight Blast Gym. I have been here about a year and love it.

Matt Thorton, who runs Straight Blast, used to train with Randy Couture and has said that Randy doesnt have an especially big bench press. Like someone said above i think alot of grappling is about being to display sub maximal strength for a period of time. If i am taking someones back i need to be able to establish my grips with my arms, get my legs in, and control them. This is very taxing, especially when someone is trying their best to escape.

I do think some level of maximal strength is necessary, for example if someone can only bench or squat half their BW then obviously brining up their level of strength would help.

I ran this by Ross at some point, because whenever i see a chart of strength standards i always am curious where i measure up, even though my goal is improved juijitsu performance, not gym numbers. Here is what he said.

"I have not seen the numbers or tests that you are referring to, but I will offer a few thoughts about the general premise. I have worked with some WORLD class fighters who are weak in almost every sense of the word when put up against most "strength athletes", but who punch like mules with devastating power and literally man-handle their opponents. They are not competing for fitness events, so will likely never accomplish many of the elite fitness tasks. Sure, some guys will do very well (eventually), but the general fitness work is never the primary goal. These men get paid to knock people out and win fights, not to become the next pull-up champion.

Keep your eyes focused on the real goal which is victory as an athlete. The other accomplishments are great, but for a competitive athlete, do not expect extra points with the judges with a high number at the gym."

Link to the thread:

http://www.rosstraining.com/forum/vi...17656&start=15

I am currently working through Ross's 50 day program and i like it alot so far. I feel strong, and my conditioning on the mat is great. Against guys my own weight i very rarely feel like i am being overpowered due to strength. With guys 20-30 lbs heavier i do feel a difference. When i lose its usually to technical superiority or conditioning.

So that is just my experience. I'll see how i feel after finishing Ross's 50 day program.

I think it would be interesting to take a bunch of high level MMA fighters and test their max lifts.


Anton
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:37 AM   #16
Jason Lopez-Ota
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I agree with Anton. Grappling and striking first, s & c second.
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Old 09-23-2007, 07:19 PM   #17
Mark Joseph Limbaga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lopez-Ota View Post
Would improving work capacity improve how long and how hard you can train? If so how do I do that?
It definitely should.

A density-type program should be in the works. EDT by Charles Staley, The Russian bear, and Some of Chad Waterbury's new programs are samples of density-type training.

In fact, some CF WODs are work capacity assessment tests.

To leave you with something to think about, if it takes you 1 minute to throw 25 kicks, when you improve by 10 seconds and the improvement also means that after the 25 kicks, you are still fresh, what would that mean when you can train in a very high level of intensity and stay relatively fresh when you fight or do your sport?

here's a conversation between our head coach and one of the basketball players we trained

coach: now imagine what your condition would be if you can already squat over 200 for a total of 100 reps in 15 minutes

athlete: that would mean doing a full-court press would be a cakewalk

coach: exactly.
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:29 PM   #18
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Thanks a lot! I'll definently google that stuff.
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:37 PM   #19
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Joseph Limbaga View Post
It definitely should.

A density-type program should be in the works. EDT by Charles Staley, The Russian bear, and Some of Chad Waterbury's new programs are samples of density-type training.

In fact, some CF WODs are work capacity assessment tests.

To leave you with something to think about, if it takes you 1 minute to throw 25 kicks, when you improve by 10 seconds and the improvement also means that after the 25 kicks, you are still fresh, what would that mean when you can train in a very high level of intensity and stay relatively fresh when you fight or do your sport?

here's a conversation between our head coach and one of the basketball players we trained

coach: now imagine what your condition would be if you can already squat over 200 for a total of 100 reps in 15 minutes

athlete: that would mean doing a full-court press would be a cakewalk

coach: exactly.
All of the stuff you mentioned looks like bodybuilding. What I've seen on the internet anyways. Do you have an example of a program or an outline of what density training is?
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Old 09-27-2007, 09:26 PM   #20
Mark Joseph Limbaga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lopez-Ota View Post
All of the stuff you mentioned looks like bodybuilding. What I've seen on the internet anyways. Do you have an example of a program or an outline of what density training is?
How can you say what you see is bodybuilding? Bodybuilding is more often semantics than anything. You cannot call a person a bodybuilder until he has competed in a meet.

Try going to eclipsegym.com the forums there have a good discussion on the 5x5.. at the tailend of the workout it describes a detailed manner of a GVT workout.

Most of Chad Waterbury's new stuff are generic programs patterned after the old Soviet density type training programs. You might wanna check those out as well.
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