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Old 09-18-2007, 03:02 PM   #1
Jacob Rowell
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Default "Heavy" CrossFit?

First, a little background:

22, M, 6'2", 180lbs

I did CrossFit for about a year, followed by 6 months of strictly strength training (something along the lines of what's prescribed in Starting Strength) and finally the Mass Gain program found here. When doing CrossFit, I felt like I was limited by my strength levels, which took me down the powerlifting path for awhile. At this point, I've got an itching to get back into CrossFit, but my strength goals were not met in the past 6 months. I'm still 20# short on my deadlift (going for 425), 35# short on my shoulder press(going for BW), and a whopping 50# or so short on my backsquat. Let me just say my BS isn't cutting it.

My plan is to follow an ME Black box program, mixed with the shorter strength oriented CrossFit workouts such as Fran, Diane, Linda, Elizabeth, Grace, and others. I'm looking at a 6 on 1, ME-XF-ME-XF-ME-XF-REST! My BB lifts will be Front Squat, Press, and Deadlift, and I will cycle back into backsquats after about 6 weeks.

My Questions:

1) Will I be able to recover doing this? I sleep 8-9 hours a night. I was eating pretty bad during the Mass Gain cycle, but I'm working back into something more Paleo-ish. Rutherford suggested a template just like this at one point, but he wasn't expecting Fran, Linda, and God knows what else to be in the same week.

2) Can I expect to meet my goals? My back squat stalled during the lifting phase, so my dreams of achieving my goal are sinking fast, and if I couldn't improve it much with a dedicated lifting program, I kind of doubt I will be able to improve it much now. We'll see. I feel like there is a very good chance I could pull the 425# DL I'm looking for fairly soon, and I think with all the overhead work in CrossFit I can expect my press to rise steadily.

That's about it! Mostly I'm looking for comments and suggestions. Appreciate the help.

Jake
-www.crossfitrva.com
-jakerowell.blogspot.com
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:45 PM   #2
Kevin Perry
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Hey Jacob,

Im not the expert here but it looks like 6 on would be too much if your goals are more strength oriented right now. If you are so concerned about getting your lifts up then why not stick to a strength platform long enough to meet your goals and work on tuning your diet to support that? 6 days on with entirely strength oriented workouts would just exuast you especially with no time for your muscles to rest. And resting = growth which is what you want if you want your lifts to go up. You can always switch over to metcon later. 3 -4 days of lifting a week or even 2 days could make a big difference.

Also, judging from your post, you should put a lot of focus onto eating better. For someone tall, you are probably not eating enough to support gains. You need to be taking in a lot of food if you want to get big and strong, and I mean good food. Cupple that with enough sleep and a steady strength program and you will see gains.
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:26 PM   #3
Garrett Smith
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IMO--too much metcon for your strength goals. I'd say reduce the metcon days by one, replacing it with a day of mobility/agility/flexibility training.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:53 PM   #4
Rob Harris
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Your recovery would have to be top notch to pull off a 6 on 1 off like the one above. If you start seeing signs of over training, back it down to 5 on 2 off and see what you like.
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:12 AM   #5
Allen Yeh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Rowell View Post

My plan is to follow an ME Black box program, mixed with the shorter strength oriented CrossFit workouts such as Fran, Diane, Linda, Elizabeth, Grace, and others. I'm looking at a 6 on 1, ME-XF-ME-XF-ME-XF-REST! My BB lifts will be Front Squat, Press, and Deadlift, and I will cycle back into backsquats after about 6 weeks.

My Questions:

1) Will I be able to recover doing this? I sleep 8-9 hours a night. I was eating pretty bad during the Mass Gain cycle, but I'm working back into something more Paleo-ish. Rutherford suggested a template just like this at one point, but he wasn't expecting Fran, Linda, and God knows what else to be in the same week.

2) Can I expect to meet my goals? My back squat stalled during the lifting phase, so my dreams of achieving my goal are sinking fast, and if I couldn't improve it much with a dedicated lifting program, I kind of doubt I will be able to improve it much now. We'll see. I feel like there is a very good chance I could pull the 425# DL I'm looking for fairly soon, and I think with all the overhead work in CrossFit I can expect my press to rise steadily.

That's about it! Mostly I'm looking for comments and suggestions. Appreciate the help.

Jake
-www.crossfitrva.com
-jakerowell.blogspot.com
1. Eat, eat, eat. Having paleo guidelines is great but I've always found having numbers to hit to be easiest when going for certain goals whether it be mass gain or fat loss (maintenance I go by feel though).

2. I personally have found it hard to get my BS numbers up while working my DL too, I would think about dropping one of those 2 and work on 1 for now then the other in a later ME/XF cycle. Adding in a total body ME exercise instead. So if you choose to work on your DL for now then for the total exercise pick a full clean variation. I'd definitely cycle you're reps week by week.

Other suggestions:
-I'd look into shoring up what any specific weaknesses as a 2nd exercise on your ME day i.e. RDL's, GHR's, GM's...etc with low volume. What is your weakpoint in the squat? Problem getting out of the hole? Stalling out of the hole? Also which type of BS are you going for low bar (PL) or high bar(OL) style?
-Try the 6 on 1 off for at least 2 weeks and see how you feel, due to the low amount of volume on the ME days I think if you eat correctly and at your age you should be able to recover just fine. Keep an eye on it though.
-Definitely do you're mobility/activation/stretching on your ME days.
-You may want to end up cherrypicking your WOD's according to your goals or for best recovery, meaning mid week try for something lower intensity rather than placing something like Linda in the middle of the week. For example:

ME- total body - hang cleans
metcon- middle intensity (cindy/helen/tabata something else...etc)
ME- lower body - deadlift
metcon- low intensity (5K/Lynne/JT...etc)
ME- upper body - push presses
metcon- high intensity (Linda/Fithly 50/FGB)
REST
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:37 AM   #6
Jacob Rowell
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Thanks for the responses guys.

As far as my goals are concerned, I'm trying to meet my strength goals while doing frequent metcon workouts. I understand that there is a delicate balance between strength and metcon, and the chances of being a champion powerlifter who also has a 30+ round Cindy or a ridiculous Murph time is slim. My real question/concern here is whether or not CrossFit can assist my strength goals rather than hinder them. I'm hoping that by focusing on the shorter/higher intensity/lower volume CrossFit WODs I can get where I want as far as strength is concerned, and be a beast when it comes to shorter metcon workouts.

As far as recovery, I'm sure I need to eat more, especially after hearing your responses. I just got done with the Mass Gain cycle, and the thought of eating at all makes me a little nauseous, but I'll have to suck it up and start eating.

Along the lines of what Allen said, with only one lift during the ME days, I don't see why I wouldn't be able to handle the volume. Plus, in my experience metcon less than 3 times a week just makes you suck at metcon. For awhile I tried an abbreviated starting strength program, with 2 days of CrossFit thrown in. I was lifting 3 days a week, with 2 major lifts a day. My times went down in the CrossFit workouts, and my lifting was not improving relative to the amount of time I was putting into it.

Jake
-www.crossfitrva.com
-jakerowell.blogspot.com
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Old 09-19-2007, 03:21 PM   #7
Patrick Donnelly
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If you want to keep up some MetCon ability, you could always try a tabata workout after you lift. Short, sweet, and to the point. You'll still have some performance decrease in longer workouts, but not as much, I don't think.
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:48 PM   #8
Garrett Smith
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I concur with Patrick. Tabatas are good.
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