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Old 09-21-2007, 06:22 AM   #1
Martin Schap
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Default Deadlift programming question

I have been training squats 2x per week for several weeks and seeing some improvement in my 1RM. However, After working up to three decent triples with chains today, I failed to pull 365, which ordinarily I should always be good for. I have decided to pull at least once a week to remedy this problem, and I'm wondering if I should drop squats on those days, or just do a few triples or something after. Some notes:
-My most recent 1RM in PL style back squat is 275
-I usually squat on Mondays and Thursday or Friday after a full day off
-Every other workout is a squat variation, rotating between front squat, box squat or squat with chains
-Volume is relatively low, usually something like three triples or 5 singles or doubles
-Squats are always followed by another lift, O-lifts once a week and presses or deads the other day

Thanks for any thoughts you might share
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:22 AM   #2
Leo Soubbotine
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What's your stats and lifting history?
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:36 AM   #3
Martin Schap
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25yo 5'10" 160-165lbs

Lifting history is that I started following the CrossFit WOD in January of '06, had a few months more or less off from September to this past January due to injury and rehab, and am now approaching my pre-injury numbers again.

I've been lifting since high school, beginning with bench press and curls and progressing into better protocols. By mid-late college I had a pretty effective program focusing on squats, deads, bench, pull-ups, dips and powercleans. I got decently strong to the extent that I was able to jump right in and do most CrossFit workouts as Rx'd, so I do have a decent amount of experience in lifting, even if more of it than I care to think about was wasted on stupid exercises and protocols.
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:46 AM   #4
Mike ODonnell
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If you max numbers are going down...may be a sign of overtraining. Reduce volume, do a week of 50% 1RM dynamic/explosive lifts/box squats/platform snatchgrip DLs, or take a few extra days off...you may see greater increases with a week off every now and then.
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:50 AM   #5
Leo Soubbotine
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I made great progress on Boris Sheiko's Novice Program - my squat and DL jumped about 50 lbs - took a while for gains to set in but it was neat.

DL went from 405 to 437 to 448 to 462 over 3 months (I did the program for 9 weeks (a deload after first month) and the lifts started improving rapidly after the program was over - had to lay almost all training for a month - while building CF Evolution. Once the bumpers came in - boom 437.

Same with squats.
Worked with about 250-275 for sets of doubles on Sheiko.

Tested - squatted 343, then a month later and an adjustment in bar height by Mark Rippetoe personally - 374.


The PM 17 Strength template - testing it right now.
Haven't tested DL or BS, but my Clean went up to 236 from 209 so the DL should be following it too.
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:25 PM   #6
Martin Schap
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Thanks guys. I would like to check out Sheiko, don't know that I'm familiar. I will google it momentarily.
As far as being overtrained, a week of deloading is already in the schedule for next week. I've done 7 fairly hard weeks in a row, so I'm definitely ready for the rest. Plan is to hit lots of single limb moves and work some snatches, box jumps and rowing into the mix.
After this week I plan to squat on the same program, but add deads every Thursday or Friday and do light squats after, either with chains or box squats or front squats with or without chains.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:52 PM   #7
Leo Soubbotine
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Monthly Training Plan - 1

In base (preparation) period by coach Boris Sheiko (Russia)

(50% 5X1 – where: 50% - percentage of maximum; 5 – reps; 1 - sets)

1 WEEK

1 day (Monday)

1.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 3Х2,75% 3Х5.(34)
2.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х2,70% 5Х5.(40)
3.Bench press 50% 6Х1,60% 6Х2,65% 6Х4.(42)
4.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
5.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 116 lifts

3 day (Wednesday)

1.Deadlift 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х2,70% 4Х2,75% 3Х4.(35)
2.Incline bench press 4Х6.
3.Dips 5Х5.
4.Deadlift from boxes 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х2,70% 4Х2,80% 3Х4.(35)
5.Squats “Scissors” 5+5Х5.
6.Abs 10Х3.
Total: 65 lifts

5 day (Friday)

1.Bench press 50% 7Х1,55% 6Х1,60% 5Х1,65% 4Х1, 70% 3Х2,75% 2Х2,70% 3Х2,65% 4Х1, 60% 6Х1,55% 8Х1,50% 10Х1.(66)
2.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
3.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 3Х2,75% 3Х5.(34)
4.French press 10Х5.
5.”Good mornings” (seating) 5Х5.
Total: 100 lifts

Total in a week: 286 lifts


2 WEEK

1 day (Monday)

1.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 3Х2,80%2Х5.(29)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 2Х6.(27)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
4.Push ups on the floor with weight (hands shoulders wider) 10Х5
5.Squat 55% 3Х1,65% 3Х1,75% 3Х4.(18)
6.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 74 lifts

3 day (Wednesday)

1.Deadlift till knees 50% 4Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 4Х4.(28)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х2,70% 4Х5.(35)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
4.Deadlift 50% 4Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,75% 3Х5.(29)
5.Squat “scissors” 5+5Х5.
Total: 92 lifts

5 day (Friday)

1.Squat 50% 4Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,75% 3Х6(29)
2.Bench press 50% 6Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 4Х2,75% 3Х2,80% 2Х2, 75% 4Х1,70% 5Х1,60% 6Х1,50% 7Х1.(51)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
4.Triceps 10Х5.
5.Squat 55% 3Х1,65% 3Х1,75% 2Х4.(14)
6.”Good mornings” (seated) 6Х5.
Total: 80 lifts

Total in a week: 246 lifts

3 WEEK

1 day (Monday)

1.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х5.(34)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х5.(30)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
4.Push ups with weight 10Х5.
5.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 5Х5.(35)
6.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 99 lifts

3 day (Wednesday)

1.Deadlift till knees 50% 4Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 4Х2,75% 4Х4(32)
2.Bench press 50% 6Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 4Х2,75% 3Х2, 80% 2Х2,75% 3х2,70% 4Х1,65% 5Х1, 60% 6Х1,55% 7Х1,50% 8Х1.(65)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
4.Deadlift from boxes 60% 5Х1,70% 5Х2,80% 4Х4.(31)
5.Squat “Scissors” 5+5Х5.
6.Abs 10Х3.
Total: 123 lifts

5 day (Friday)

1.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 2Х5.(25)
2.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 5Х2,75% 4Х5.(40)
3.Bench press 50% 6Х1,60% 6Х2,65% 6Х4.(42)
4.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
5.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 107 lifts

Total in a week: 329 lifts

4 WEEK

1 day (Monday))

1.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х2, 85% 2Х3.(27)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х5.(30)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
4.Dips 8Х5.
5.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 2Х4.(23)
6.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 80 lifts

3 day (Wednesday)

1.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х2, 85% 2Х3.(27)
2.Deadlift 50% 4Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х2, 85% 2Х3.(26)
3.Bench press 55% 5Х1,65% 5Х1,75% 4Х4.(26)
4.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
5.Squats “Scissors” 5+5Х5.
Total: 79 lifts

5 day (Friday)

1.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х6.(33)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 5Х5.(40)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
4.Dips 8Х5.
5.”Good mornings” (seating) 5Х5.
6.Abs 10Х3.
Total: 73 lifts

Total in a week: 232 lifts
Total in a month: 1093 lifts

Monthly volume in lifts (reps) by weekly cycles


Exercises-SQUATS--BENCH PRESS---DEADLIFTS
Week 1-----74---------142------------- 70
Week 2-----90---------113-------------57
Week 3-----109-------162-------------63
Week 4----- 83--------123-------------26
Monthly-----356-------540------------216
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Exercises--Good Morninigs--Other-----# of workouts
1 week-----50-----------------254----------3
2 week-----55-----------------275----------3
3 week-----50-----------------255----------3
4 week-----50-----------------285----------3
Monthly-----205---------------1069--------12

The only thing I did - was swap flies with pushups. And did pullups and rowing on days off.
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Old 09-21-2007, 06:19 PM   #8
Martin Schap
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I like it with those mods. I may do this over the winter. I am currently traveling too much for my job to commit to any barbell moves more than twice a week, but the heavy season ends by Thanksgiving, so this might be good to start in December. Be nice to start the year off with a bunch of new PRs.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:16 PM   #9
JW Luckett
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I pull once a week using the Coan-Phillipi program. I generally do only the heavy lift plus the speed deadlifts.

http://tsampa.org/training/scripts/c...lipi_deadlift/

I'm starting on my second or third run through and think I will cut out the back-off weeks (5-7) this time through. See how that goes.
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:05 AM   #10
Derek Simonds
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Leo cool program thanks for sharing.

JW that is a neat DL specific day.
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