So... 1600m training... - Page 2

Steven Low · 10-01-2007, 04:30 PM

Having no experience as a runner... since "middle distance" like 1600m is more just becoming at all out sprint it seems to me that a combination of intervals and metcon would be the most effective.

If you can transfer from your phosphagen to glycolytic to a bit of oxidative with very little dropoff, you'll do really well. Having just read what Ross said about his experience I think this would be the best idea to base it on.

Concerning HIIT like intervals I think it would be best to program variations of run/sprint vs. jog from 200/200 all the way up to about 350/50. I'm *not* actually sure it would be a good idea to do so but run maybe 2000m for your intervals.. but at the very least about 1200m. Also, I was reading some stuff earlier on Wariner and Johnson for the 400m and they were running a bunch of stuff shorter and then resting 1-5 mins and then running more. For example, 300m then 250m or 3x350. Something along the lines of 1200m then 800m with a minute or two rest inbetween might also work well.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts from a non-runner.

I'm almost positive that metcon is the way to go since the WR the 400m times people are looking at start to change energy pathways around 300m.

P.S. make sure your running form is very, very good.

James Evans · 10-02-2007, 05:39 AM

Just to give you some ideas:

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/middist/tp1500.htm

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/middist/tp1500p1.htm

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/middist/tp1500p2.htm

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/middist/tp1500p3.htm

Patrick Donnelly · 10-02-2007, 02:33 PM

Re: Steven
I'm getting pretty good on the form, but I'll keep working on it. The Vibram FiveFingers helped a lot; if you run incorrectly wearing them, you sure know it!

Re: James
Thanks for the links.

-Ross Hunt · 10-02-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Donnelly

I do realize the importance of competition... But that only comes into play in the event itself, not in the training.

You might be surprised, really. Just like you get better at weightlifting by training frequently around oly lifters, so you get better at running by training with track athletes. If anything, I think competition in training is even more helpful in track than in weightlifting or powerlifting, because you're literally running agianst your teammates. Competition produces better times, and better times produce competition. Besides, even if you never miss a practice on your own, you'll run faster when you're running against someone, no matter how dedicated you are.

[quote=Patrick Donnelly;20502]

Trust me, that is a huge relief for me. How so? Because I know that a 4:11.5, though it is ridiculous, is at least possible when compared to the 100x more difficult 4:00.

[quote=Patrick Donnelly;20502]

That's the attitude!

If that's how you think, then it sounds like you have the mindset to reach that sort of a goal.

Patrick Donnelly · 10-02-2007, 07:38 PM

Any recommendations for which lifts to do for lower body strength and power?

Got this in mind as of now:

Push:
- weighted jump squats
- push press
- heavy thrusters
- backsquat/pistol (Not sure which to choose, if not both.)

Pull:
- clean
- snatch
- deadlift
- weighted back extension

-Ross Hunt · 10-05-2007, 02:27 PM

Push-press tends to emphasize upper body more than lower, although it does serve as a speed and strength assistance exercise for the jerk.

Lower:

Back Squat
Front Squat
Deadlift from floor or Romanian DL starting from top
Clean and variations (if you have a coach to make sure your tech is good)
Snatch and variations (ditto)

Also, you might try the front and back split squat. This is basically a lunge, except you don't push off the lead foot and come all the way back to standing with feet together after each rep; you just push back to the point where you're in a split jerk stance and you're completely stable, and then step forward to do the next rep. I recommend the front and back split squat because your leverage may very well be better in this exercise than in a full back squat, since you're so tall. I'm also fairly tall (6'), and I have long legs, so I can split squat more than I back squat. More load----> More strength.

The split squat emphasizes the back and front of the leg more or less evenly, so even though it is technically a 'push,' it, like the powerlifting back squat, sort of overlaps both categories.

The oly lifts are great, but since your overall strength is still quite low, I doubt whether you need to do any specific power/ speed work. Just work strength on the one hand and running on the other, and you'll get what you need.

Patrick Donnelly · 10-06-2007, 01:44 PM

Re: Front Squats
What is the added benefit of loading the weight in front anyway?

Re: Split Squat
I'm not sure I'm following you. Is this it?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NsujBLD_fe0

If it is, would I be correct in assuming he chopped his ROM off greatly?

Re: Power (Oly lifts) v. Strength (powerlifts)
I'm fairly certain I have the clean and snatch down now, but I would get a video for critique before using it them frequently. But you're right, I probably would want to build a better strength base before working with them.

But would working in the 6-8 rep range be all right for building strength? I figure I'd have an easier time getting my 8RM deadlift from 205 (guesstimate) to 280 than my 1RM deadlift from 280 (max) to 300, if prior experience is worth anything.

-Ross Hunt · 10-08-2007, 11:38 AM

That's pretty much it.

My recovery stance is about where the guy in that video is. I step forward from there to perform the squat and then push off my lead foot as I complete it, and recover to that position. Go as deep as you can without turning your hips to one side; they should stay squared up and facing forward at all times. My depth is basically top of the hip joint parallel to the ground. I either touch the ground lightly with my knee, or stop just short of it. Usually, to keep myself honest, I do a couple reps out of each set where I touch, and a couple where I come just short.

Patrick Donnelly · 10-12-2007, 02:12 PM

Ran some intervals today, testing times...
100m: 0:13
200m: 0:29
400m: 1:03

Need to get an 800m, 1200m, and 1600m time, along with improve those first few!

Patrick Donnelly · 10-15-2007, 04:54 PM

Ran a 800m today. 2:40. Not nearly good enough! The first lap was terrible for some reason, coming in at ~1:25, the second one was much better.

In regard to weight gain, I reweighed myself last night (at my usual time, after I've eaten fully), and came in at 170 pounds. A few weeks ago I weighed ~178. It seems I've been slimming down significantly with Paleo/IF, and I have been able to tell the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Donnelly

I figure I'd have an easier time getting my 8RM deadlift from 205 (guesstimate) to 280 than my 1RM deadlift from 280 (max) to 300, if prior experience is worth anything.

Wow. I tested my 8RM deadlift today and managed to hit 235. That's much better than I had expected... Maybe next week I'll test my 1RM too.