Lifting / Endurance conflict

[Garrett Smith]

I don't see how improving one's maximum posterior chain strength through DL and OLs, without devoting an excessive amount of time to them, would do anything but improve your rowing numbers.

Improve your work capacity and your rowing will get better.

[Tom Rawls]

To some extent the question has gotten turned around. For me, I am wondering less about how helpful squats, deadlifts, cleans, etc would be in training for rowing, and am wondering more how rowing might affect lifting.

That is, if I have been doing is essentially high-rep, low-weight strength training by hauling on an erg (figure 5 to 10 thousand reps per week) how does that training affect performance in explosive, low-rep lifting?

It's largely an academic question. I'll do the lifting and see where I end up. I'm just curious. Doing the trainng is only part of the fun. Discussing it is also entertaining--and instructive, of course.

[Steven Low]

Yup. It will detract from it no question. How much depends on what kind of rowing you're doing. 2k is probably going to be more endurance based clearly.

I wonder, actually, if you do mostly interval sprints how that would transfer over to rowing.. because doing intervals for sprinting really brings down 1-2 mile times significantly (if you have a grasp of good pacing).

[Tom Rawls]

Steven,

The exercise physiologists say a fast 2k is 80% aerobic energy. My 2k is not fast, so I expect the aerobic contribution is even greater.

A lot of the training on the erg is interval work, although the repetitions are not typically "sprints." One thing that is convient about the erg is that it provides instantaneous reporting of your pace, which allows for highly structured training.

[Garrett Smith]

My first thought on how a lot of erg-ing might affect your OL is that a "short pull" (as in a row pull, without full extension of the back and an early arm bend, at least for OL) may have been fairly engrained in your posterior chain neuromuscular systems.

[Tom Rawls]

Interesting observation about the neuromuscular systems. That wouldn't have occurred to me, although I see lifters referring to neuromuscular stuff all the time. By chance, earlier today I saw a picture of an oly lifter in full back extension doing a clean. As you note, that's entirely different from the limited back extension experienced whie rowing.

[Garrett Smith]

Tom,
I wanted to throw that out there.

That being said, the OL pull and the KB pull are quite different, yet elite OLers have absolutely utilized KBs to improve their posterior chain strength.

The movements may be different enough in certain ways to not "overlap" neuromuscularly:

• Horizontal pull (row) versus vertical pull (OL)
• Rear end supported (row) versus unsupported (OL)
• "Shortened" back extension (row) versus full back extension (OL)
• Wind resistance (row) versus weight (OL)
• And on and on...

Like so many misguided SPP approaches, I only think it would be likely to mess up your OL pull with rowing IF you tried to mimic an OL pull on a rower (both in pattern and intention).

Obviously CFers have been combining the two for a while and no negative pattern has been observed to this point, so I think we are pretty okay there.

Personally, I think rowing and OL are very complementary.

[Steven Low]

Originally Posted by Tom Rawls

Steven,

The exercise physiologists say a fast 2k is 80% aerobic energy. My 2k is not fast, so I expect the aerobic contribution is even greater.

A lot of the training on the erg is interval work, although the repetitions are not typically "sprints." One thing that is convient about the erg is that it provides instantaneous reporting of your pace, which allows for highly structured training.

I thought about it a bit more and it's much like most of the CF MEBB workout schedules. Max effort lifting with metcon.

So it's definitely a good hybrid of strength / metcon effect except instead of multiple exercises you're just using rowing just like tabata method.

Hope that gives you some better insight like it did to me.

[Eric Jones]

Our strongest athlete in the O-Lifts was a collegiate rower. He does exhibit some rowing induced problems in his o-lifts such as a narrow squatting stance and a tendency to start the pull-under WAY early. Still, he is very strong.

[-Ross Hunt]

Originally Posted by Garrett Smith

Like so many misguided SPP approaches, I only think it would be likely to mess up your OL pull with rowing IF you tried to mimic an OL pull on a rower (both in pattern and intention).

...

Personally, I think rowing and OL are very complementary.

The first is a very good point. People identify the erg stroke as a pulling motion and immediately categorize it as similar to the o-lifts, and I think that's a mistake. Because of the use of the seat and slide, the lift is not extremely similar to a deadlift, nevermind and olympic pull. In particular, leg extension as opposed is emphasized much more in rowing and hip extension much less, and so the hamstrings are much less involved in the stroke than in the pull.

Nevertheless, I agree with their second remark as well; they just provide so great an increase of total strength and power. I wish I'd done the oly lifts seriously as a crewbie.