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Old 12-08-2007, 10:09 AM   #11
Steve Liberati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
[*]Pastene Imported Pitted Ripe Olives, Extra Large--798[*]Trader Joe's Veggie Chips Potato Snacks--1970 (!!!, most potato chips are outrageous, but this doubles even the other high ones!)[*]Terra Exotic Vegetable Chips--828 (sorry Steve!)[*]Blue Mesa Grill Sweet Potato Chips--4080 (ack!, no more TJ's sweet potato chips for me!)
Damn Dr. G, you are just killing me!! Actually thanks for bringing this to my attention. Guess its time to nix the Terra Chips from the shopping list. Save me a few bucks and maybe a few tumors as well. But boy are they good.
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:54 PM   #12
Troy Archie
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To start off with I'm a certified coffee geek/snob. I work as a barista at a roaster/espresso bar that draws in and caters specifically to coffee enthusiasts and geeks. Needless to say I am jaded towards studies and conclusions like this.

I think we pulled the jump to conclusions mat way too quickly here. Way too many questions to be asked about this especially along the lines of carbohydrates, not just coffee.

"Please remember that raw or boiled potatoes test negative or very low for acrylamide. Acrylamide is formed in substantial quantities when starchy foods are fried or baked at high temperatures."

Ok, so the main cause of the high Acrylamide levels in these items appears to be the high temperatures associated with processing them. So what about baked potatoes then? Are they high in Acrylamide? Could the same be said for baked yams and squashes. I love wrapping up veggies like cauliflower, celery, onions, cabbage and roasting them in the oven. Are they high in Acrylamide then? Or are they void because of their lower carb/starch values?

Onto the issue of coffee now, Iíd be really interested in knowing further details about the roast profiles associated with this high Acrylamide level. If the levels are high in coffee then we can assume that it perhaps isnít necessarily the starch/carb levels associated with the item (as coffee contains no/trace amounts of carbs) but perhaps the heat involved. Would there be then a high Acrylamide level in say a burnt steak or over cooked meat or again roasted veggies?

Starbucks burns the shit out of their coffee. Why? Because they buy low-grade beans. Roasting the beans to an extremely high temperature then destroys and hides any imperfections in the coffee but also destroys any perfections and wonderful little bits of flavor and aroma that gives a certain coffee from a certain part of the world, distinct notes that makes it special. Roasting coffee at high temperatures just makes all coffee taste the same regardless of its region of origin. Coffee is just like wine that way. So the same can be said for beef, you buy a $5 steak and $30 steak, burn the shit out of both of them and youíll be hard pressed to find the difference. Coffee is not meant to be burnt. Itís also a perishable item just like green veggies but with a little bit longer shelf life, usually about 3 weeks post roast and yes Iíve seen coffee mold. From there it goes stale and loses many of its wonders. Thereís my little coffee rant. Sorry.

"While I can understand the decision to drink coffee in rare circumstances - like on a day when you are sleep deprived and need to be as alert as possible to drive - I believe that the acrylamide issue alone makes coffee a poor food choice.Ē

This person doesnít know anything. Coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery system.

ďThe bottom line is that regular coffee drinkers have a higher risk of developing a wide variety of health challenges than people who don't drink coffee on a regular basis."

So do vegetarians. Itís easy to take a look at the statistics of every coffee guzzling, pizza eating, sugar addicted American and compare it to those who donít drink coffee, (a demo graph that often quits coffee when they decide to quit the junk foods and start exercising) isnít very scientific. This type of thinking is the same that got us into the whole low fat high carb problem that weíre in right now. Some asshole looked at some statistics and saw that the US ate more fat than other modernized nations and had a higher heart disease rate so automatically assumed it must be fat that is the root cause. He thought wrong.

If coffee makes you happy or, improves your performance or, you LOVE the taste, aroma, flavors and romance that is involved with it or, all of the above, then drink it.
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Old 12-10-2007, 04:48 AM   #13
Allen Yeh
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Well thought out response.
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:03 AM   #14
Mike ODonnell
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I wasn't about to give up my Americano......or Guinness.
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:56 AM   #15
Garrett Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Archie View Post
To start off with I'm a certified coffee geek/snob. I work as a barista at a roaster/espresso bar that draws in and caters specifically to coffee enthusiasts and geeks. Needless to say I am jaded towards studies and conclusions like this.
At least we have the conflicts of interest disclosed early...

Quote:
I think we pulled the jump to conclusions mat way too quickly here. Way too many questions to be asked about this especially along the lines of carbohydrates, not just coffee.

"Please remember that raw or boiled potatoes test negative or very low for acrylamide. Acrylamide is formed in substantial quantities when starchy foods are fried or baked at high temperatures."

Ok, so the main cause of the high Acrylamide levels in these items appears to be the high temperatures associated with processing them. So what about baked potatoes then? Are they high in Acrylamide? Could the same be said for baked yams and squashes. I love wrapping up veggies like cauliflower, celery, onions, cabbage and roasting them in the oven. Are they high in Acrylamide then? Or are they void because of their lower carb/starch values?
I would make the assumption that the acrylamide production is related to temperatures higher than boiling, and that the acrylamide content is related to the carbohydrate content in starchy/sugary foods. I would assume that the roasted veggies you speak of would have higher acrylamide content than if they were boiled or steamed, and that acrylamide content would be proportional to the amount of carbohydrates in each vegetable (not necessarily "high" in amount).

Quote:
Onto the issue of coffee now, Iíd be really interested in knowing further details about the roast profiles associated with this high Acrylamide level. If the levels are high in coffee then we can assume that it perhaps isnít necessarily the starch/carb levels associated with the item (as coffee contains no/trace amounts of carbs) but perhaps the heat involved. Would there be then a high Acrylamide level in say a burnt steak or over cooked meat or again roasted veggies?
OK, so I found this link while searching for "coffee acrylamide":
Reducing coffee's acrylamide may also hit flavour, antioxidants

Now I'm slightly confused about what it is in coffee (since it likely isn't the carbohydrates) that makes acrylamide--is it inherent in coffee, or is it produced through roasting? I ask this because as one goes through the article, it is said that "Increasing the roasting degree led to a decrease in acrylamide concentration as well as radical scavenging capacity." So, a darker roast leads to less acrylamide and antioxidants. I understand the reduction in antioxidants, the reduction in acrylamide is confusing based upon how I thought acrylamide comes to be.

Quote:
Starbucks burns the shit out of their coffee. Why? Because they buy low-grade beans. Roasting the beans to an extremely high temperature then destroys and hides any imperfections in the coffee but also destroys any perfections and wonderful little bits of flavor and aroma that gives a certain coffee from a certain part of the world, distinct notes that makes it special. Roasting coffee at high temperatures just makes all coffee taste the same regardless of its region of origin. Coffee is just like wine that way. So the same can be said for beef, you buy a $5 steak and $30 steak, burn the shit out of both of them and youíll be hard pressed to find the difference. Coffee is not meant to be burnt. Itís also a perishable item just like green veggies but with a little bit longer shelf life, usually about 3 weeks post roast and yes Iíve seen coffee mold. From there it goes stale and loses many of its wonders. Thereís my little coffee rant. Sorry.
Rant taken.

Quote:
"While I can understand the decision to drink coffee in rare circumstances - like on a day when you are sleep deprived and need to be as alert as possible to drive - I believe that the acrylamide issue alone makes coffee a poor food choice.Ē

This person doesnít know anything. Coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery system.
To Dr. Kim, maybe his suggested use of coffee is as a caffeine delivery system, a "whole-food" based one (better than caffeine pills, I'd say). I'm of the belief that admitting compounds we take in for the drugs that we use them for allows us to better realize when they might be affecting us negatively. People always try to find reasons why their drug of choice can be justified as having positive benefits for them.

Quote:
ďThe bottom line is that regular coffee drinkers have a higher risk of developing a wide variety of health challenges than people who don't drink coffee on a regular basis."

So do vegetarians. Itís easy to take a look at the statistics of every coffee guzzling, pizza eating, sugar addicted American and compare it to those who donít drink coffee, (a demo graph that often quits coffee when they decide to quit the junk foods and start exercising) isnít very scientific. This type of thinking is the same that got us into the whole low fat high carb problem that weíre in right now. Some asshole looked at some statistics and saw that the US ate more fat than other modernized nations and had a higher heart disease rate so automatically assumed it must be fat that is the root cause. He thought wrong.
Dr. Kim has been treating patients for a long time at his clinic, I doubt he is basing this on simply statistics. He's not a big fan of stimulants in general.

Quote:
If coffee makes you happy or, improves your performance or, you LOVE the taste, aroma, flavors and romance that is involved with it or, all of the above, then drink it.
I agree. That being said, I also find that the foods that people are most emotionally attached to are most likely the ones affecting their health in the most negative ways.

Considering what I eat on a daily basis--not really high in starchy or sugary carbohydrates--I'm not planning on giving up my ~14 oz. of coffee in the morning. Now I'm simply left with the decision between medium roast and dark roast, based upon acrylamide, antioxidants, and caffeine content.

"Set down the coffee roaster, back away slowly, we don't want any trouble..."
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:25 PM   #16
Garrett Smith
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Troy,
I was anxiously awaiting some response.

Mr. Wolf must not be patrolling this forum much these days, being a minor league fitness celebrity and all...
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