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Old 01-07-2008, 04:34 PM   #11
Susie Rosenberg
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Gant, wow, that's some history you've got behind you.

I'm glad IF is working for you now. I'm with you on the Zone thing. It made me crazy. I am not one to sit with a plate of 3 macadamia nuts, 3 sardines, and half an orange. (What do you do with the other half???)

So far, IF has increased my ability to be in touch with my body and what it needs. In two weeks of daily 16 hour fasts, I've woken up on 2 days and knew I needed to eat. So I ate, no big deal.

Like you, I feel really good. I did get euphoric the first week, but now that's leveled off some to just "good."

It'll be interesting to watch your experiment unfold....you work so hard.

Susie
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:05 AM   #12
Stuart Mather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Battaglia View Post
Gant, glad to hear of your success. Great stuff. Just to give you a heads up, remember that IF is intended to elicit an acute response, not a chronic one. I think a lot of people (myself included, not saying you are though) are so impressed with the results of their IF experience once they see the benefits that they want more and more. I can personally attest to the claim that IF has it's euphoric effects on the body and mind, which can indeed become quite addictive. All beginner IFer's need to now that IF should never be taken to far, and like MOD said in another thread it should be used as a tool for increasing insulin sensitivity. Sorry for the rant, just didn't want anyone else to have the bad experience I had by creating a chronic stressor with IF. Doing 18 hours every day has proven to be too much for my personally physiology. This may or may not be the case for you, but I figured I'd touch on it since you are doing something similar to what gave me great results in the beginning but ended up being very problematic. Hope things workout for the best with your IF experience! Listen to your body!
Greg, I take your point about the increased insulin sensitivity being important. But do you think improved nutrient partitioning, increased neurotrophic growth factor/hgh is relevant too? I was too much of wuss to push the fast length more than 15 hrs the first few months, but I've been IF'ing for over a year now and alternate between 18hrs one day and 21 the next. On the 6hr windows I can easily graze my way through 2000 low carb cals without ever feeling like I'm cramming food into my mouth or rushing each mouthful. I've always been a slow eater, now I just eat slowly for less of my waking hours. On the three hr window alternate days, I graze my way through about 1700 of the same macronutrient ratio fare.

I wonder whether your caution about avoiding a chronic metabolic stressor, is relevant only when you rush into it, after basically eating more regularly your entire life. If it takes a years gradual ramping up to ensure that one (long) meal up to six hours long (and I mean really slow eating) , isn't that reaping the benefits of the acute stress of the other 18 fasting, but doing it every day ? In other words I've yet to find a metabolic/performance/psychological/lifestyle downside to daily much longer than 'normal' fasts. I still enjoy the company of other people eating and I drink calorie free liquids. Hunger while fasting stopped being an issue altogether after the first 8 months. In fact I sometimes find myself noticing that chronologically, it is time to eat. Otherwise I'd probably not bother. The first mouthful reminds me of the joy of eating, and I have no problem enjoying six or three hours of gourmet adventuring.

I think sometimes our conventional models of 'acute' and 'chronic' metabolic stressors are woefully lacking in sophistication.

Stuart
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:49 PM   #13
Greg Battaglia
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Stuart,
Good points you've made. I agree that things like increased BDNF and altered gene expression are incredibly important and beneficial upsides of IF. Currently no research that I am aware of has compared the effects of different amounts of days fasted/week. In every study all subjects fasted on an on/off schedule, with no breaks between cycles. Therefore, it's necessary for us to use the black box to determine what is useful for our purposes. Part of the reason why I failed with a daily fast is because my stress level was already through the roof. I was going to college, working, working out, cooking all of my own food, and buying all of my own food, which placed a higher level of stress on my body as a whole. My day consisted off moving non-stopped all day, worry non-stopped all day, for all waking hours, even when eating. I think that all of this combined with IF is what threw me over the edge. It was just too much stress from all sources. Now that I have some time to relax and just work and concentrate on objectives that I'm interested in pursuing (taking a semester off from college) I will likely add IF back in on a regular basis so that I can actually sit down and relax and enjoy my meals worry-free. With this in mind, it's easy to see that the implementation of IF in domesticated humans will vary greatly from on individual to another based on their lifestyle, schedule, and overall stress level. When you're already stressed to the max, adding in some little stressors in an attempt to produce a hormetic effect is going to do more harm than good. Some people may be able to fast every single day fro 20 hours. Other maybe not at all due to excessive stress.
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