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Old 03-27-2008, 02:58 PM   #11
josh everett
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about 10 years ago I started making sure i ate atleast 1g of protien per pound of bodyweight... when I started doing this I began gaining like a beginer again. I've since of course paltued and may even be on the decline but eating loads of protien made a noticeable change for me.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:06 PM   #12
Mike ODonnell
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Also eating a higher fat diet (like 40%+) will have a nitrogen sparing effect....so hence less muscle breakdown and less protein required. The zone is a great example of how one can lose fat, gain muscle (on like 0.8 gr/lb bw) and still be calorie restricted. Hence why people up their fat intake to account for activity level and still gain muscle without upping protein.

That and high protein is not ideal for longevity due to excess protein oxidation....just did something on that today at the blog.

1 gr/lb of bw is ALOT of real food....not talking about using cheap Whey powder either. That and there are other factors such as GH, Test, IGF-1 that come into play for building muscles.
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Old 04-03-2008, 09:46 AM   #13
Greg Davis
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1 - 1.5 pounds of veggies a day, split in approximately the same doses as the meat.
How much veggies is that? (i don't have a good sense of veggie weights). Looking up a few from nutritiondata gives me:

1 bunch broccoli = 1.3 lbs (608g)
1 med stalk celery = .09 lbs (40g)
(celery weight seems light but thats what it says)
1 bunch spinach = .75 lbs (340g)
1 head romaine lettuce = 1.38 lbs (626g)
1 large carrot = 0.16 lbs (72g)

Does this seem about right if we're aiming for 1-1.5 lbs a day? Is volume a consideration?
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Old 04-03-2008, 01:18 PM   #14
Garrett Smith
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Greg,
Here's my estimates from stuff I typically eat:
5-7 oz. of salad at lunch (one bag of typically baby spinach or arugula)

Dinner is usually a veggie + an onion (I like onions!), so it's usually the onion weight plus:
12 oz. of brussels sprouts, broccoli, or cauliflower (one bag)
16 oz. of Southern Greens or Chard mix (one bag)

I know it is not as environmentally conscious as it should be, but it works for me.

My wife eats about 1/5 of the veggies at dinnertime.

If you are using "loose" veggies, it is a bit tougher to gauge the weight/amount, for sure.

IMO, if you go by weight, volume really isn't a consideration.

It's just how I do it. It's more that I came to this intake over time and observed later what I did, versus setting a goal intake of food and always trying to reach it.
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Old 04-14-2008, 06:56 AM   #15
Darryl Shaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell View Post
Also eating a higher fat diet (like 40%+) will have a nitrogen sparing effect....so hence less muscle breakdown and less protein required. The zone is a great example of how one can lose fat, gain muscle (on like 0.8 gr/lb bw) and still be calorie restricted. Hence why people up their fat intake to account for activity level and still gain muscle without upping protein.

That and high protein is not ideal for longevity due to excess protein oxidation....just did something on that today at the blog.

1 gr/lb of bw is ALOT of real food....not talking about using cheap Whey powder either. That and there are other factors such as GH, Test, IGF-1 that come into play for building muscles.
I have a theory that the idea you need 1g/lb of BW is a sneaky marketing trick aimed at convincing bodybuilders they can't meet their protein requirements without the use of supplements because, as you say, it's a lot of real food.
If I remember right according to the book Clinical Sports Nutrition the protein requirement for athletes is 1.2 - 1.6g/kg of BW per day with any protein intake above this amount being oxidised for energy but most athletes can get along fine with 1g/kg of BW most of the time so anyone aiming for 1g/lb of BW per day is actually eating about 2.2 times more protein than they need.
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Old 04-14-2008, 06:59 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
I have a theory that the idea you need 1g/lb of BW is a sneaky marketing trick aimed at convincing bodybuilders they can't meet their protein requirements without the use of supplements because, as you say, it's a lot of real food.
If I remember right according to the book Clinical Sports Nutrition the protein requirement for athletes is 1.2 - 1.6g/kg of BW per day with any protein intake above this amount being oxidised for energy but most athletes can get along fine with 1g/kg of BW most of the time so anyone aiming for 1g/lb of BW per day is actually eating about 2.2 times more protein than they need.
Athletes - which kind need that? Runners? Cyclist? Marathoners? Gymnasts? Weightlifters looking to build muscle? Basketball players looking to maintain muscle?
That's my issue with the term "athlete" and most generic prescriptions - too generic.
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:06 AM   #17
Mike ODonnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
I have a theory that the idea you need 1g/lb of BW is a sneaky marketing trick aimed at convincing bodybuilders they can't meet their protein requirements without the use of supplements because, as you say, it's a lot of real food.
If I remember right according to the book Clinical Sports Nutrition the protein requirement for athletes is 1.2 - 1.6g/kg of BW per day with any protein intake above this amount being oxidised for energy but most athletes can get along fine with 1g/kg of BW most of the time so anyone aiming for 1g/lb of BW per day is actually eating about 2.2 times more protein than they need.
I agree that 1gram/lb of bw is a lot of protein...and most don't need it. As for bodybuilders....well most of them are being told to take 1.5-2 g/lb of bodyweight...that is just over hype by the supplement industry. (but many are also on steroids which increases protein synthesis in the muscles...so they can utilize more protein than normal people). Most active people can do very well on 0.8g/LEAN lb bw if their fat intake is also higher. (aka like the athletes zone...which shows you can gain muscle and lose fat on a lower amount of protein and calories).

Quote:
That's my issue with the term "athlete" and most generic prescriptions - too generic.
I think for all levels of general "athletes" (not bodybuilders) you still stay in the same range of protein (may go up, but not by much...0.8-1g/lb lean bw)...it's the other macronutrients of carbs and fat that you manipulate to maintain calories for activity needs and nitrogen retention...not excess protein.
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:11 AM   #18
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John's point is well taken, for some athletes, the protein requiretments are actually pretty low, for strenght athletes, not so much. Every athlete I know has felt a positve bump from the 1g/LB ratio josh pointed out.

OTOH, I have family friend, currently a guest of the state who has been gaining gobs of lean muscle and strength on pretty much oatmeal and tater tos. his max protein per day is a cup of scrambled eggs.
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:26 AM   #19
Chris Bardwell
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Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post

OTOH, I have family friend, currently a guest of the state who has been gaining gobs of lean muscle and strength on pretty much oatmeal and tater tos. his max protein per day is a cup of scrambled eggs.
As Arthur Devany says "Get plenty of rest. Eat healthy (food can never put on muscle). "

OP: I have a friend who got huge literally eating nothing all day. He would have a gherkin for lunch and a sandwich for dinner got massive and ripped...So long as protein is at a decent level (100g or about) and of high quality you'll be fine.
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Old 04-15-2008, 06:14 AM   #20
Darryl Shaw
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Originally Posted by John Alston View Post
Athletes - which kind need that? Runners? Cyclist? Marathoners? Gymnasts? Weightlifters looking to build muscle? Basketball players looking to maintain muscle?
That's my issue with the term "athlete" and most generic prescriptions - too generic.
The recomendations for protein intakes of 1.2 - 1.6 grams per kilogram of bodyweight per day are based on training volume and intensity not whether the athlete is an endurance or a strength athlete and it may come as a surprise to you but elite endurance athletes actually have the highest protein requirement as they oxidise lean body mass during exercise. Strength athletes, and that includes bodybuilders, only really need higher intakes of protein (1.6g/kilogram of BW/day) for short periods at the start of new training programs after which homeostatic adaptations to training occur and protein requirements drop back to slightly above what's required by sedenetary individuals (1g/kg of BW/day).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell
I agree that 1gram/lb of bw is a lot of protein...and most don't need it. As for bodybuilders....well most of them are being told to take 1.5-2 g/lb of bodyweight...that is just over hype by the supplement industry. (but many are also on steroids which increases protein synthesis in the muscles...so they can utilize more protein than normal people). Most active people can do very well on 0.8g/LEAN lb bw if their fat intake is also higher. (aka like the athletes zone...which shows you can gain muscle and lose fat on a lower amount of protein and calories).
I think the the whole bodybuilding and supplement industry has a lot to answer for regarding the confusion about protein requirements. A quick look in almost any good book on sports nutrition will tell people that they need between 0.8 and 1.6 grams per kilogram of bodyweight per day depending on activity level with the average 75 kilogram (165lb) athlete needing about 1g per kilogram per day most of the time which is 75g/day. Simple right?

The supplement industry has a problem though if their average 75kg customer realises that their protein requirement is only 75g/day because a normal mixed diet easily provides more than that so because they need to sell their products if they want to stay in business they muddy the waters a little and the recomendation that the average athlete needs around 1g per kilogram of BW per day becomes 1g per pound per day and suddenly that average 75kg athlete needing 75g of protein per day needs 165g of protein a day. Clearly that's a lot of steak and eggs to get through every day and food's expensive but what are you going to do if you need 165g of protein per day? Thankfully those nice supplement manufacturers come to your rescue with protein shakes in a dozen tasty flavours.....

It's a clever ploy really; create a problem by changing a single word, provide a convenient solution to that problem then just sit back and watch the money roll in.
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