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Old 03-27-2008, 11:45 AM   #11
Mike ODonnell
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shadow boxing....or street fighting with pre-schoolers...although that could get ugly if they gang up on you...better test this out first...
http://www.justsayhi.com/bb/fight5
Seriously.....no one has played that "How many 5yr olds you can fight" game? This forum is so going downhill........
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:41 PM   #12
Scott Kustes
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I have:
I can take 22 five-year olds in a fight...not very impressive.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:44 PM   #13
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Wrestling is great but hard to find for the reasons listed above. Asking to train with the local high school boys team is probably going to get you on some kind of watch list.

BJJ can be good depending on the class and the instructor. It's more technical, and you spend more time on the mat rolling than you do in Judo or wrestling, which diminishes some of the GPP aspects (rolling on the mat trying to isolate an opponent's joints is different than rolling with an opponent and trying to physically manhandle him like in Judo or wrestling). It can be hard on the joints, particularly the elbows and shoulders (and neck and ankles, to an extent).

Judo is great for GPP but can be very hard on the body, especially if you're in a competition-oriented club. Find an adult class that isn't so focused on competition, and you'll be golden. A lot of classes spend the first hour on their feet and the second hour rolling. Those a pretty good mix. It can be hard on the joints, particularly the elbows. Shoulder and knee injuries happen more often from impact than locks. You will miss training time due to injury at some point.

MMA is becoming a catch-all term. Usually it's either a BJJ program + some striking or a wrestling class with striking and a few more submissions. You can have shootfighting, submission wrestling, Sambo, etc. It's program-dependent. Without knowing more, I can't advise you.

Aikido is a pleasant enough, but it won't do much for your conditioning. Traditional Aikido is like a dance class for the first six months. Great for footwork, low on the cardio. It's easy on the joints, and you won't get anything busted up. You also won't improve your GPP.

Striking arts, such as TKD, Kenpo, Muay Thai, Krav Maga (yes, I'll go ahead and put it here) are fine for fighting (some of them) but low on the GPP scale. Even the ones that you think give you a good GPP workout pale in comparison with the grappling arts. It's easier on the joints, but you will get the occasional black eye, busted lip, or bruised ribs (assuming the school is decent).
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:52 PM   #14
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I did a semester of judo in college. Shoulda done more, but I was in a striking vein, eventually leading to boxing.
But, sambo, bjj, I know I could find. I guess I'm just western.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:08 PM   #15
Gittit Shwartz
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Maybe Gittit or the Wolfman could comment on the suitability of Capoeira for your desires?
Capoeira can be great for GPP (depending on the group or style), but from reading your original post I wouldn't think it's what you're looking for. Looks like you've got the "stylish" aspect covered with gymnastics and you're looking for something more aggressive and applicable in a real-world fight. Some groups do claim their Capoeira can hold its own with any martial art in the ring, but if you see them in Vale Tudo competitions, there's not much Capoeira left in their technique aside from some elements of style.

I did traditional Karate for 9 years and I would NOT recommend it for GPP (I had none to show for all those years of training when I switched over to Capoeira at age 18).

BJJ is cool, I'd say check that out.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:01 PM   #16
Eric Kerr
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Wrestling is great but hard to find for the reasons listed above. Asking to train with the local high school boys team is probably going to get you on some kind of watch list.
Well, maybe not on a watch list, but a lot of schools will not let non-facualty wrestle with the kids because of insurance/liability reasons.

Edit, if you didn't know how to wrestle and wanted to learn by wrestling with the kids at a school, that would probably get you put on a watch list.

Some freestyle/Greco tournaments do have Open divisions and there are usually a couple of hoary old warriors still going to them, but competition can be scare. A larger arear like NYC might be better is this regard. Still there is the matter of finding someone to teach you or train with you.

Being a former wrestler and loving the sport, I'm kind of sad about the BJJ, MMA world taking off. Just one more thing to overshadow a great sport. Americans seem to appreciate sports with little or no contact or full contact blood and guts. Nothing in-between. I take heart from the fact that maybe a few kids see the applicability of wrestling to these other activities and get involved that way.

Since leaving college, I've found the occasional coaching gig, but it is not what is paying the bills and with two little ones at home, it is hard to find the time to commit. But I love it when I can do it. Coaching adults would actually be nice, because at least they pay attention to what you are telling them for the most part.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:07 AM   #17
Allen Yeh
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Yeah, freesyle, folkstyle, Grecco-Roman, all that, how does one get into it as an adult? Searching on the internet for adult wrestling brings up some undesireable results.
Anyone know anywhere in NY?
I'll try to look some stuff up for you. I use to wrestle club in college and some of the professors would stop by every once in a while (too bad no one I had for class!). I know there was an adult wrestling night up at American Univ. in DC and they said something about NYC though I can't recall off the top of my head right now.

And you're right about not searching for "adult wrestling" that is NSFW.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:30 AM   #18
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Ok, I was being somewhat cruel with my earlier post for which I am only partly sorry.

I don't understand the point of the question.

I think that you are asserting that the very act of wrestling is great GPP. But you don't want to get hurt doing it.

I'm worried that you are looking for the Holy Grail. You post regularly on the CF board. Is CF not working? I thought that this was great GPP.

In the UK there has been an increase in the popularity of martial arts, the marketing being particularly aimed at women with two (somewhat polar) incentives:

1. The self defence element in, as our media drum into us, an increasingly violent society

2. The fantastic conditioning potential of employing the methods and mechanics of a martial art without the actual sparring/competitive fighting. You too can have a boxer's abs without ever getting punched. This is really driven home: You will not have to fight unless you want to.

Surely this is the safest option then?

Or perhaps you could take it further and downgrade the whole thing further by just doing Tae Bo or Boxercise? It probably wouldn't be much further from the rubbish you see so many trainers over here doing with their clients on the heavy bag or focus pads. Maybe a lot more effective.

But how many people walk away from this thinking they are a fighter? Sadly I think quite a few think they know the moves.

"You look great. How do you stay in shape?"
"Well, I do a bit of boxing"

No you don't. You participate in a simulation of the training methods used by athletes involved in combat sports.

And how boring is that? Can you imagine training with an NFL team but sitting out every contact session and every game?

I train using a lot Ross Enamait's ideas. That doesn't make me a boxer.

My girlfriend spent 2 months studying kung fu in a monastery in China. She is not Jackie Chan. (She abhors violence! Very Budhist)

One of the tenets of CrossFit is that you should try new sports. That is why you should consider a martial art. It should be fun. Something new to learn. But mastering the skill set is going to take time. Why not read some of Ross' stuff and try some of his ideas on conditioning? The fitness doesn't just come from sparring. Do you want to try something new or are you looking for a new training regimen?

As a kid I did Judo and actually captained my school. It was ok, it satisfied that need to wrestle with other boys (but I always found rugby a better outlet). I learned quite a bit about body movement, balance, landing safely etc. But I found it, ultimately, inherently boring and too weighed down in Japanese terminology and ceremony. And conditioning wise it was nothing compared to what I did for rugby and the shit my old man used to have me doing at weekends and all through the summer holiday. Carrying buckets of cement up and down stairwells, moving bales of hay, piling up sheep cadavers on a bonfire. And no chance to punch anyone!

I'm not trying to belittle you. I'm just curious as to what you are aiming for.

Perhaps the last word should go to Ross and his argument on the safety of weight training in Infinite Intensity:

"Given the choice between the iron and being punched in the face I think I'd go with the iron."
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:31 AM   #19
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There is a wrestling sport club at the U of A, looking at universities may be a good place to start.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:43 AM   #20
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James, you're spot on.
I always laugh at the name of the workout called "fight gone bad" and don't see how anyone who has competed in any fight sport couldn't.
If all that happened at the end of your fight was you were totally tired and gassed then the fight went pretty damn well.
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