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Old 04-07-2008, 09:54 AM   #21
Steve Liberati
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Thanks Mike. You keep me posted.

Regarding the thread, there are certainly many factors that are at work here contributing to the sparkling health and longevity for the centenarian people. While there is no doubt that diet plays a strong role, I believe its benefits are only realized when everything is working in unison. In other words, serving inmates paleo type foods only will probably do little good for the overall health. Too many negatives to cancel out the good. So centenarians have that working for them. Long checklist of good things happening to them...making it very difficult to show their diet being the secret to their success.

In addition to the combination of various factors working together to influence their health, centenarians are simply thriving on a diet very similar to our paleolithic ancestors. The spectrum of foods they consumed from grains, fruits, veggies and nuts are similar to the spectrum consumed by our ancestors throughtout millions of years of human and prehuman existence.

According to the data, it is assumed that meat and fat made up of less than 35 percent of the total energy intake of the paleolithic hunter and gather's diet. Of course the differene being too, was our ancestors consumed meat that was nutritionally different than what we eat today. The meat we eat is much less heathful than the lean and relatively unsaturated meat eaten by our stone age relatives.

This post really makes me start to wonder how right we have it with our adequate fat and protein, lots of veggies, nuts and little fruit twist on a true paleo diet.

Maybe these centenarians can teach a few things about truly emulating the dietary fare of preagricultural humans. The foods may not be the same, but the nutritional elements are not much different.

A relatively high intake of carbs (high-fiber nutritional dense fruits and veggie sources) coupled with mod-low protein and fat - a pattern well within the broad paleolithic range.

So maybe their diet does make sense when comparing it to the modern version of the paleo diet. At closer look while applying the concept of equivalency, their approach really does seem so far off.

In other words its much easier to recreate the nutritional profile of our ancestors than it is to obtain the same sources (can you remmeber the last time you ate a mammoth, a giant sloth, or an insect?).
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Old 04-07-2008, 10:17 AM   #22
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Kind of ties into something I did on high protein intake not being good for longevity in the sense of increased oxidative damage.

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The accumulation of unrepaired oxidative damage products may be a major factor in cellular aging. Both oxidative lesions in DNA and oxidatively damaged proteins have been shown to accumulate during aging. The accumulation of oxidized proteins in Fischer 344 rats was compared for animals consuming protein-restricted and calorically restricted diets--both of which have been shown to extend lifespan. Rats were fed diets restricted in either protein (5% or 10% of the diet as compared with the normal 20% casein), or calories (25% or 40% less than normal), or total diet (40% less than normal). In addition, some of the rats fed a diet providing 5% or 20% protein were irradiated twice weekly (125 rads per exposure; 1 rad = 0.01 Gy). The level of oxidative damage to proteins (protein carbonyls) was determined in rats sacrificed at various times. The oxidative damage to proteins increased with aging and with radiation. Either protein or calorie restriction markedly inhibited the accumulation of oxidatively damaged proteins. Protein restriction reduced the accumulation of oxidatively damaged proteins during the oxidative stress of chronic irradiation.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...ez&artid=50075

So a diet moderate in protein is ideal, enough to maintain muscle....but is a diet higher in more stable fats (Sat and MUFA....not PUFA and Trans) less beneficial than a diet higher in Fruits and Veg? Getting enough vitamins and minerals aside. Higher fat diets increase nitrogen retention, therefore less protein is needed....but vegetables can provide some protein as well...good, bad or tie goes to the runner? At that point....I think it's a small factor if the fats are healthy and not loaded up with toxins...as fruits and vegetables can also introduce more toxins that can accelerate ageing.
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Old 04-07-2008, 11:42 AM   #23
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I don't think food or water should be at the heart of this discussion, as the majority of the things these folks are doing have precisely to do with managing stress and having a sense of place & purpose. That is likely much more important than simply food and water.

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Have a strong sense of purpose Costa Rican centenarians have a clear mission in life, what they call a plan de vida. They feel needed and want to contribute to a greater good.

Keep a focus on family Nicoyans centenarians tend to live with their families, and children or grandchildren provide support and a sense of purpose and belonging.

Maintain social networks Nicoyan centenarians get many visits from neighbors. They know how to listen, laugh, and appreciate what they have.

Keep hard at work Centenarians seem to have enjoyed physical work all their lives. They find joy in everyday physical chores.

Embrace a common history Modern Nicoyans' roots, among the indigenous Chorotega, and their spiritual traditions have enabled them to remain relatively free of stress.
Let us not put the cart before the horse.
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Old 04-07-2008, 12:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Let us not put the cart before the horse.
Unfortunately most people's carts are full of twinkies and ding dongs....they are stressed out after getting a broken wheel cause they ran off the road while checking their blackberry and trying to argue with the last cart that cut them off...and their horse has arthritis.....
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:44 PM   #25
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MOD,
great advice again, as usual. I'd like to see a book as well. You're retired? How old are you?

Just to keep things clear, I'm not about to shun off everything that I've learned and experienced through the Paleo approach. It's still my reference point, I may just oscillate from that point. Good point on the gluten/social environment issue. Stress is obviously a major component.

Steve,
good points, I've considered this before myself.

Garrett,
I see where you're coming from and I agree that the most consistent traits among centenarians are having a positive outlook, enjoying exercise, and having something to live for. However, diet is a factor, and I would say a significant one. Based on the evidence (not my opinion, or yours) most centenarians eat plant-based diets full of veggies, fruit, nuts, grains, and beans; meat is a side dish. Of course their will be the few outliers that eat shit, some cigarettes, drink beer, and don't exercise yet still live to 100, but I think what's important is what MOST centenarians are doing. Most are eating plant-based diets. You can still eat a plant-based paleo diet. I pretty much do already anyway. Tons of veggies as a base with healthy fats added, supplemental fruits, nuts, meats, eggs, fish. Not too far from what the centenarians are doing.

Jay,
I don't know exactly what you mean by that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you suggesting that we end this thread because (god forbid!) we shun dogmatism and keep an open mind and honestly evaluate the evidence and let the chips fall into place? If you meant something completely different I apologize, but that's the vibe I got.
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:34 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Greg Battaglia View Post
great advice again........You're retired? How old are you?
Only great if you get to put it into action now and make it work for you daily.....starting tomorrow....hope you do.

36...and retired "mentally" from the whole sales pitch of the corporate world life (401ks, climbing the corporate ladder, long days, making money only for other people, etc...)....not even close financially.....hence I plan on working for the rest of my life...but doing things I want to do...living day by day...and I don't golf....
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Old 04-08-2008, 04:45 AM   #27
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I think this thread has prompted me to eat ALOT more veggies in my diet. Just not nearly as fun as meat and fruits
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Old 04-08-2008, 05:14 AM   #28
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You can't go wrong with building your diet on a base of vegetables and fruits.

If you "eat the rainbow" of colorful vegetables and fruits, you will be eating a wide variety of phytochemicals: literally hundreds of antioxidants, all of which go to work in your body as soldiers against free radicals. Thus, they are anti-aging and anti-cancer substances.

Probably the best antidote to modern ills, diet-wise, lies in those vegetables and fruits.

On top of that base of veggies and fruits, add high quality protein, enough to support lean body mass, and a modicum of healthy fat, and you're good to go, and it's paleo.

I don't think there's anything wrong or unhealthy about including small portions of whole grains, like oatmeal, barley, quinoa, corn, and small portions of legumes, if desired. But they are clearly not necessary for health and longevity.

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Old 04-08-2008, 08:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell View Post
Personally I think people use the "friends" term as a crutch to keep other people around. Nothing stays the same....so if people choose to go a certain way that is not in tune with your purpose/passions...and they choose that lifestyle...then it is time to say goodbye in a nice way.
This is so true. We're all family here, so it's story time. I am in the process of getting a divorce. What it all boiled down to is that my wife and I are interested in leading two different lives. In reference to my healthy lifestyle, she would commonly use the phrase "that's not normal" to which I'd reply "Look around you sometime...do you want to be normal like the rest of those people?" She would rather see me feeling like crap with her from a binger on brownies than both of us thriving after fish and vegetables. It's hard to be with someone that you care about, but know that they are just dragging you down...that can apply to friends or family. When you aren't interested in the societal timeline of "get a degree, get married, buy a house, have kids, slave for 40 years, retire and finally live" and the other is, it's time to say "I have nothing against you and wish the best for you, but I cannot live life as I see fit with you. We will each be better off with someone else."

I think you see a lot of obese people that are truly scared to lose weight because it means other things change: how will their obese friends react? What about their spouse? Will it mean finding new friends and getting a divorce, all for the selfish act of bettering themselves?

As Mike said, people want others to be miserable with them. Rather than improving her own health, my wife was more interested in me coming down to her level. That way she didn't have to do anything and didn't have to feel bad when I'm wanting to get out and use up some energy and she didn't. There's a difference between being on par with someone else because you improved to their level and being on par with someone else because you dragged them down to your level. The former is noble, the latter isn't.

If your friends are critical of your lifestyle, perhaps that is telling of the level of friendship. Please don't take offense to that...just something to think about. Friends should be supportive, regardless of whether they are interested in such things. Also remember that there are friends of all types...I have the deep friendships with people that I can talk to once in 6 months and we can share stories like we didn't miss a day. I have other people that I meet up with once in awhile to grab a beer or dinner. There are other people that are the "sports" friends or "camping buddies". The guys I hang out with most aren't people that I talk to about my lifestyle....they know I eat different than them and don't watch TV and are mostly okay with that, so long as I don't preach to them why it's better to do things my way. Wanting people to let you live life as you see fit also means freeing people to live life as they see fit.
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Old 04-08-2008, 09:35 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susie Rosenberg View Post
You can't go wrong with building your diet on a base of vegetables and fruits.

If you "eat the rainbow" of colorful vegetables and fruits, you will be eating a wide variety of phytochemicals: literally hundreds of antioxidants, all of which go to work in your body as soldiers against free radicals. Thus, they are anti-aging and anti-cancer substances.
So true....as I did a thing about fiber today on the blog (how it is overhyped in my mind)...but the key to civilizations with health...low stress...eat fiber from fruits and vegetables....no processed foods.....diet could be high in meat but because of a healthy lifestyle their gut works just fine...and they have no bowel movement issues (as that is more related to bacteria environment...hence you poop more when you take probiotics). In a sense, the cleaner your enironment is around you....the less fruits and vegetables you will even need. Like said above...environment (stressors, toxins, etc) is the BIGGER issue...as a healthy environment needs less protective agents....but a toxic one, well.....that can be what leads to disease no matter how many fruits and veg we eat.

Quote:
The belief that regular bowel movement is important for health is very ancient. But the present theory is based on Dr. Dennis Burkitt's discovery that relatively few rural black Africans suffer from cancer of the colon. He attributed this to their relatively crude diet.

The theory was that, as fibre made food travel through the gut faster, it allowed less time for cancer-inducing agents to form. This, of course, presupposed that food became carcinogenic in the gut and there was no evidence that it did. Neither was there any evidence that moving food through the intestine at a faster rate decreased the risk of colon cancer. Moreover, the rural Africans' lifestyle was far from that of the Western city dweller: their diet is different, but also they were not exposed to so many pollutants, toxins or mental stresses. Indeed, there were many factors that could have been responsible for a difference in disease patterns. Other communities - the Mormons of Utah, for example - also enjoyed a low incidence of colon cancer yet they ate a low-fibre diet.
from http://easydiagnosis.com/articles/cholesterol3.html
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