Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Nutrition > General Nutrition

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-28-2008, 06:25 PM   #1
Jeff Evans
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Question Higher blood sugar desirable near workout window or not?

I originally asked this on the Crossfit nutrition forum but didn't get any responses there.

I can't reconcile this. In Nutrient Timing, Dr. Ivy basically argues that it's ideal to raise your blood sugar level just at the end of a workout, because your muscles are more receptive to glycogen intake during that window, which closes quickly (like within half an hour of the end of the workout). Also you need insulin to build muscle, so increasing your insulin window during this time means your muscles will regenerate more effectively during the recovery and eating period to follow. This all seems to make sense.

On the other hand, in Protein Power, Eades/Eades argue that the critical component in muscular development is HGH (human growth hormone, generally recognized as very good stuff), and that the release of HGH is attenuated in the face of high blood sugar. Therefore you shouldn't eat any carbohydrate before, during, or after your workout. You should just have a high protein/fat meal an hour after lifting because HGH will be manufactured if you keep your blood sugar low.

OK so what am I missing? If one of them is wrong then which one? If they're both right then which negative (or positive) factor is dominating?
Jeff Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 04:48 PM   #2
Robb Wolf
Senior Member
 
Robb Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,444
Default

Jeff-
This topic gets hashed about a good bit and for good reason: it depends. There is no doubt that carbs post WO, particularly a hard metabolic session ala-crossfit, will improve recovery...both in terms of glycogen repletion AND muscle recovery/growth. That said we also see some very interesting adaptations with a low/no carb post WO period with regards to fat adaptation and some cellular stress adaptations that might be quite favorable for health and longevity.

There is likely some break-even point of being able to sneak in some carbs post WO without perturbing the whole insulin situation such that we get serious downsides. The solution I've found in this regard is to eat most of my carbs post WO and i keep this to REAL food. A portable non-retch inducing meal I've been using lately is a small pop-top can of salmon from trader joes (wild salmon) and ~100g of carbs from a yam. The remainder of my meals are protein and fat...some greens. Performance is good, I feel good...sleep is good etc. No symptoms of elevated insulin levels as evidenced by leanness and clear thinking.

You can find more info on this topic in threads like the health and longevity bias...i think I had something on my blog a while back also.
__________________
"Survival will be neither to the strongest of the species, nor to the most intelligent, but to those most adaptable to change."
C. Darwin

Robb's Blog
Robb Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 05:39 PM   #3
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

Depends on the person like Robb said. Basically figure out which one will work better for you with some experimentation.

hGH and insulin although exerting the near the same effects for muscle growth tend to negate each other. The one main difference is insulin promotes uptake of nutrients by adipocytes while hGH stimulates lipolysis. Well, actually hGH has better overall effects via IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor 1) so tending towards not-so-big insulin spiking if you are going to do that is a good idea (aka real food like Robb is talking about).

I've had better results with real food so I'm gonna stick with that.
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 06:14 PM   #4
Mike ODonnell
Senior Member
 
Mike ODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,596
Default

Fasted state before workout will give great GH response
You don't need PWO drinks and shakes (if anything amino acids will do)
Eat a meal an hour PWO that is more whole food carbs and protein (low fat)
Eat Meat/Fat/Veggies the rest of the day
Get plenty of sleep
If your goal is fat loss, keep calories lower....if you want mass eat more
__________________
Fitness Spotlight
The IF Life

Last edited by Mike ODonnell : 05-07-2008 at 06:19 PM.
Mike ODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 08:19 PM   #5
Jeff Evans
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Default

Thanks for the replies everyone! I tried to make my question academic in nature but in reality I have a personal goal of losing fat while maintaining (or even gaining) strength on o-lifts. Gaining strength should not be difficult since I'm barely above the untrained level on the Crossfit tables. For a while I tried having some whey powder and dried fruit (or Larabar) after lifting with no noticeable result (a bit of extra fat gain if anything). These days I'm trying to get myself fat adapted so I've been cutting way down on carbs in general (particularly dried fruit which was probably my biggest prior GI sin). I may try to incorporate some whole food sources of carbs post lifting (like fruit or yam as suggested) to see if that makes a difference, while avoiding them at other times.

Anyway reading Eades more closely now, he does say you get the biggest HGH "bump" during sleep so I should perhaps focus on getting a bit more. With this in mind it probably also makes sense to keep blood sugar low before bedtime to avoid any HGH impediment during this key time.

I will continue to follow all of your posts (both here and on Crossfit boards) with great interest as I seek to solve my body comp puzzle once and for all. Thanks again.
Jeff Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 09:41 PM   #6
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

~60-70% of GH is released during sleep.

If neuroendocrine response is in next months PMenu you'll read some stuff more about GH and how it coincides with working out.. though I didn't talk about PWO nutrition.
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2008, 06:57 AM   #7
Mike ODonnell
Senior Member
 
Mike ODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,596
Default

Yep...if you want GH response at night...eat 3 hours before bed time. (NO snacking before bed). Also dump the dried fruit and other sugars....there is no place for them if weight loss is your goal. Here's something I did a while back on hormones (including GH) and fat loss....it may help clear some things up.
__________________
Fitness Spotlight
The IF Life
Mike ODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:57 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator