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Old 05-13-2008, 09:01 AM   #11
Mike ODonnell
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Dale Carnegies defense course "How to win friends and influence people"....best defense is a good offense...

I don't take any MMA so my opinion is more unbiased...but honestly...the last thing you want in a fight is to get taken down...so I would focus on anything that focuses on defense while standing...once you are down you can be in alot of trouble especially if you or your wife weight less than your attacker. Or just take the hockey player route...grab the guy's shirt and punch him as many times as you can while taking a few in the face yourself....that and I'll use anything around me if someone comes after me with a weapon...like a chair...pipe...some starbucks coffee....no rules...only living....that and walking away (if you can) is always the best option....
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:14 AM   #12
Yael Grauer
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No, I tried all those techniques against timing and resistance with trained MMA artists and you can have all of the hubud lubud and shit in the world and it still doesn't work. Try it sometime.

But I'd love to see some people take their tactical chopsticks and pens to the neighborhood I teach at and see if they can use it on the streets during gang initiations.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:27 AM   #13
Michael Miller
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Mike, I have heard alot about that course...it sounds really good, i may have to check it out!

I'm with you as far as not wanting to fight on the ground! Take any good BJJ man, put him on the ground in a street fight, add some broken glass, maybe a suringe or two lying around, body fluids, whatever...on top of that throw in more than one person, some weapons etc and all of a sudden pulling guard just isn't as fun.

I don't even know if i would punch with a closed hand, or grapple like i used to...i want to end things quick, not box, or roll around looking for a submission. It would be all about headbutts, knees, elbows, biting and eye gouges in addition to pepper spray, and some last resort blade work. I have used the hockey shirt over the head thing a time or two i must say lol

Your right though, the best thing you could possibly do would be not to get caught in a bad situation in the first place...walking away, or atleast around, is better than any punch, kick, submission, or weapon that you could ever use!
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:58 AM   #14
Michael Miller
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Your definitely right about certain drills, i was speaking more of distilled technique, sort of like what Burt Richardson teaches. You know, taking what is useful and discarding the rest. Look how his stick and blade work evolved compared to the type of thing your talking about, its totally different now than when he did hubud drills, or really any of the original Inosanto blend...shoot, its more different than it was even 2 years ago! Thats not to say he threw it all out, he kept some from Dan, he kept some from Eric knaus of the Dog Brothers, he kept some from Illustrisimo, and Sulite, on top of what he had tested under real resistance against skilled opponents. I don't think that you could argue that Burton doesn't train with alot of the top MMA guys, as well as test everything he preaches.

Yes, i always try and test things in real time, against resisting opponents, some of it worked, some of it didnt, i kept what worked, discarded what didnt...i been doing that for years. MMA guys have no clue how to deal with alot of things, especially concerning evironmental awareness, a blade, a firearm, how to deal with multiple opponents, how to fight from close quarters, or under different distress...i have tested alot of things like thiis, and seen it first hand. Thats why i think Burt had a great idea when he took MMA training methods and applied them to street encounters!

I grew up in a HORRIBLE neighborhood, so i have somewhat of a clue to what your alluding...again, take what would be useful to you, and discard the rest. IMO, in my experience, from where i grew up, and what fights i have seen, or been involved with growing up, as well as being a bouncer for several years...i would definitely use a pen, or any other thing i could grab if it helped me to survive. Shoot, i saw a kid get beat with a trapper keeper in gym class one year so im not above grabbing anything i can get my hands on lol
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:05 AM   #15
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I remember Guro Dan saying that if you really wanted to be a good stick fighter, just practice for hours making Xs on the heavy bag
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:05 AM   #16
Mark Bennett
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My Advice, try them all and find which ones you enjoy and seem the most real. To be effective for self defence youíre going to have to spend at lot of time on any art, maybe years, so if you or your wife don't enjoy what you are doing no matter how good it is for self defence, you are not going to put that time in.

Really don't understand this view about not going to the ground in a self defence situation. Of course you don't want to go to the ground, but this is self defence when anything can happen, so you need to be prepared for that eventuality.

From my experience in a number of arts I would go for arts that have a high focus on live training (sparring) against resistant opponents. Itís the only way to know what works or does not work for you.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:17 AM   #17
Yael Grauer
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Actually, I tried testing out a lot of my FMA on friends who trained with Burt and that's when I realized it didn't work for me against them. Good thing to figure that out before a real encounter.

I really like this article on the problem with a streetfighter mindset:
http://www.straightblastgym.com/problem.htm
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:22 AM   #18
Anton Emery
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I would say pick a combat sport that emphasizes the qualities you need to succeed in a real fight, timing, energy and motion. You need something where you are working with a resisting opponent, not in a rhythmic pattern, and not just standing there, but moving like you would in a real fight. That does not mean people have to get hurt or take each other's heads off, but doing a flow drill in kali or having an instructor shout commands while one person punches and other blocks does not develop any usable fighting skill. Something like boxing, kick boxing, muay thai works well for striking because you are hitting pads, hitting an opponent that is trying to move, and having someone try and hit you back. You discover quite quickly in that environment what works and what doesn't.

That doesnt mean that your wife has to get beat up her first day in class, or ever. A good school should take it to whatever level she wants. She might start doing some shadowboxing, learning footwork, eventually hitting the bag or pads. She might later on gear up and go light with a resisting, more experienced opponent. But she will know how to move, how to hit, and what to do is someone is hitting her. Alot of the traditional martial arts don't teach this way.

The same things goes for any grappling art. I see schools that supposedly teach some grappling, but when i watch the students roll they are not working against realistic resistance and are making alot of mistakes because of it. And again no one has to get hurt, though in grappling this is less of an issue because there is no striking.

At Straight Blast Gym they use the I method, which is Introduction, Isolation, and Integration. The instructor will teach a technique and then you practice it with an compliant partner (introduction). Then the instructor will bring the class back in and iron out any issues, and then you will drill with Isolation. There is where your partner is giving you enough reistance so you don't succeed all the time, but he is not shutting you down totally. This lets you build realistic timing and resistance. Say i am practicing a basic takedown, I'll shoot in, my partner might let me take him down a few times, then he will resist more so i have to work harder, at times not taking him down at all. Integration is grappling to submission but starting in the position you learned in class. So say we were working on the mount position, one person will start in mount and roll to submission, then when someone taps you switch and roll again. This lets them practicing what they just learned in a wide open roll, with all submissions and other positions being options as well.

Alot of people say that the ground is the last place to be in a fight, and i would agree. So i would say if you don't want to go to the ground, then learn what to do when people try to take you down, which means learning how to grapple. Then you will be able to stop their takedowns, or just take them down yourself and end up on top.

As far as weapons goes i think that self defense systems like Tony Blauer's stuff has alot of merit. Its easy to learn and based on gross body mechanics. its not pretty, but real fighting never is. I find for myself its much healthier to train BJJ/grappling for sport, know i have some realistic skills that may work if i ever have to use it, but realize if its multiple opponents or weapons that no fighting system will totally help me.

Matt Thorton explains all this much better in his blog.

http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/200...aliveness.html Its work/family safe.

Sorry if the above is kind of a longish rant. Its always the first thing that comes to mind when i read about people wanting to choose a martial art. Its hard to know what to look for if you are new to it all.


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Old 05-13-2008, 11:01 AM   #19
Michael Miller
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Yael, you mean you don't like suprises? lol Yep, always best to figure that stuff out before you actually have to use it! Burts stuff has a tendancy to help open alot of peoples eyes...gotta love Matt Thornton too, actually he and Burt were good buds, and barrowed a lot from eachother. I had read those articles before that you an Anton had listed... they have alot of truths in them. I don't agree with everything Matt says, but overall i really respect him, as well as the way he conducts himself as a man, and martial artist.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:07 AM   #20
Michael Miller
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I thought this was a good thread concerning dead drills
http://sayoc.com/forums/index.php?PH...7&topic=1248.0
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