Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Fitness, Strength & CrossFit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2008, 08:31 PM   #1
Dave Gibbs
New Member
 
Dave Gibbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 13
Default deadlift stalling already

Hi guys
my current program is below which I have been following for 4 weeks. My question is as to my DL which has stalled badly. When I started my DL was much better than my BS but I have found that whereas I have easily added 5-10kg per seeion on my BS my DL has actually gone backkwards.
My theory is that doing DL after BS is fatiguing me too much and I should maybe either put the DL first on one session or reduce the volume to 5x3 or some variant.
I am 39/6'3/216. My BS has gone from 110x5 to 145kgx5 in the 4 weeks, my DL has gone from 135x5 to 145kgx5 and stalled for the last 2 sessions.

schedule -
m -OFF
T -ME
W-CF
T-ME
F-OFF
S-CF
S-CF

ME 1 = 5X5 BS/DL/WEIGHTED DIPS
ME 2 = 5X5 BS/PC/SP
ME 3 = 5X5 BS/DL/WEIGHTED PULLUPS

I just cycle the workouts. I had planned to keep to this for 8 weeks anticipating some plateauing by then but not so quickly.
cheers in advance.
Dave Gibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 08:51 PM   #2
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

two weeks is not a stall, it's a blip. if you're going to fiddle with it, try dropping the DL volume a little or do it first on the second day. and drop that midweek CF if your goal is to get stronger. If your goal is not to get stronger, then what do you care if your deadlift stalls?
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 04:16 AM   #3
Júlíus G. Magnússon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Iceland
Posts: 555
Default

Too much CF in my opinion.

What exactly do you mean by 'CF,' though? Short, medium, long metcons? The WOD as prescribed (even if that's another max effort day)?

I say you need to drop the volume of your training down. Three CF days and two high volume ME days in one week sounds pretty steep for gaining strength at that level.
Júlíus G. Magnússon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 05:09 AM   #4
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

5x5 seriously? With CF?

Plus with the aforementioned 5x5 DL following your 5x5 BS.

You need to run like 3x5 max especially if you're gonna keep the CF and consecutive days exercising.... but I'd drop at least one CF since you don't need much metcon to keep metcon ability.

Programming is hard as hell to do... but there's one thing you should always avoid which is high volume heavy lifting especially with accessory (see metcon, etc.) work. Unless you plan on beating yourself into the ground and then taking a week off hoping for an uber-supercompensation phase. More ain't always better 'specially with heavy lifting.. need to get the quality stuff in.

Anyway, if you backed off for like ~4-5 days I'd bet you'd hit a PR.. but it's not gonna help going back to the same program.

Last edited by Steven Low : 05-22-2008 at 05:11 AM.
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:46 PM   #5
Dave Gibbs
New Member
 
Dave Gibbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Júlíus G. Magnússon View Post
Too much CF in my opinion.

What exactly do you mean by 'CF,' though? Short, medium, long metcons? The WOD as prescribed (even if that's another max effort day)?

I say you need to drop the volume of your training down. Three CF days and two high volume ME days in one week sounds pretty steep for gaining strength at that level.
I will do the WOD unless it is strength of ME bias, it which case I do one of my own which tend to be rowing/KB based and keep to short,medium metcon efforts.
I know volume is probably the answer and I have to get better at resting. I have a sendentary office based job and I use exercise as a strong stress reliever but I do realise that as I hurtle towards middle age that rest becomes ever more important.
cheers mate.
Dave Gibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:51 PM   #6
Dave Gibbs
New Member
 
Dave Gibbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
5x5 seriously? With CF?

Plus with the aforementioned 5x5 DL following your 5x5 BS.

You need to run like 3x5 max especially if you're gonna keep the CF and consecutive days exercising.... but I'd drop at least one CF since you don't need much metcon to keep metcon ability.

Programming is hard as hell to do... but there's one thing you should always avoid which is high volume heavy lifting especially with accessory (see metcon, etc.) work. Unless you plan on beating yourself into the ground and then taking a week off hoping for an uber-supercompensation phase. More ain't always better 'specially with heavy lifting.. need to get the quality stuff in.

Anyway, if you backed off for like ~4-5 days I'd bet you'd hit a PR.. but it's not gonna help going back to the same program.
so funny Stephen, I knew you would metaphorically raise your eyebrows at the program. I am guilty of 'more is better' which partly is just my personality anyway but also becoming older and getting paranoid that your going to go down the drain if you miss a couple of days.
I reckon I might try ;

m -rest
t - ME
w -cf - short metcon
t - ME
f rest
s -cf - longer metcon
s -cf - whatever

Thanks chaps
Dave Gibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 06:55 PM   #7
Allen Yeh
Senior Member
 
Allen Yeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 4,245
Default

What is your goal for the next 8 weeks?

I echo what a lot of others have already said. Trying to couple a true 5x5 program with 3 days of CF is a recipe for not gaining in one direction or the other.

If you want to add in ME days that are more than what CF prescribes there are plenty of other ways to go about it. Coach Rutherfords black box method which I personally had some success with. As well as trying to integrate Dan John's One lift a day program with CF. The volume of lifting is much lower than a true 5x5.
__________________
"And for crying out loud. Don't go into the pain cave. I can't stress this enough. Your Totem Animal won't be in there to help you. You'll be on your own. The Pain Cave is for cowards.
Pain is your companion, don't go hide from it."
-Kelly Starrett
Allen Yeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 07:30 PM   #8
Dave Gibbs
New Member
 
Dave Gibbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Yeh View Post
What is your goal for the next 8 weeks?

I echo what a lot of others have already said. Trying to couple a true 5x5 program with 3 days of CF is a recipe for not gaining in one direction or the other.

If you want to add in ME days that are more than what CF prescribes there are plenty of other ways to go about it. Coach Rutherfords black box method which I personally had some success with. As well as trying to integrate Dan John's One lift a day program with CF. The volume of lifting is much lower than a true 5x5.
not disagreeing with you however with the exception of my DL the other lifts are progressing very well.
I hit 155kg for BS last night up from 110kg
PC has gone from 70kg to 87.5kg
SP has gone from 50kg to 60kg
weighted dips up to +25kg from +15kg
weighted pullups up to +30kg from +10kg.
so overall I feel I am making good progress after 4weeks with the exception of my DL. The program is not killing me and I am sensible enough to take an extra rest day if a feel stuffed, I am just surprised/a little confused as to why the DL is the odd man out.
Thanks mate.
Dave Gibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 09:36 PM   #9
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

Cause DL uses all those muscles that you're over-exerting. Well, we could go into a discussion about CNS but that's still fairly unclear how to much heavy work actually does affect the CNS.. but we'll just say it does. Hehe.

And I'm glad you caught the raised eyebrow effect. I was going for that.

Depending on how much you're doing in that ME/CF/ME part it may not be long enough to recovery for the CF/CF part of your week. That's where you're running into problems where you're underrecovered going into more work.. just exacerbates the problem. If you feel performance decreasing feel free to back off a couple days to let your body catch up.
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 10:32 AM   #10
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

Speaking of excessive volume 5x5 programs....

http://www.t-nation.com/article/most...ks_5x5_program

Maybe if you're on roids you can recover from that. Or using pansy weights.
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator