Getting low on clean and snatch

[Arien Malec]

Originally Posted by Allen Yeh

Almost forgot another suggestion would be 3 position lifts working from the top down.

Or even 4-position: starting with a series of tall snatches, cleans. The tall or high-hang variations are fabulous on working the key skill of pulling under the bar.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Marcus,

Yeah, thats pretty much the problem I have. I'm very comfortable with a front squat, not as much with the OHS. My shoulders act up a bit in the OHS, mainly because I don't think I'm shrugging them hard enough. I got fairly low on my 80% cleans yesterday after doing warm ups with hang squat cleans. THe snatch was better, but I'm still only getting down to just above parallel.

I was thikning about OHS squatting each rep on the snatch to work on the bottom position.

[Gary Valentine]

yes, exactly what marcus said! learn the feel from the hang without worrying about the timing of the double knee bend, then go down to the floor and use all the momentum for the big full lift. . 3 position, 4 position, all good, but get good at tghe hang first. another tip i find that i need to tell beginners is that when they pick it uop to the hang for the set, do it exactly like the lift as far as the startign position etc. soem just tend to stand up with it from different posdition, and miss the chancce to practice that for wehn they put it all together.
i like the term "tall cleans" - what we call cleans from full extension. teaches the feel of throwing your body DOWN into the full sqaut at that point, NOT continuing to try to pull it higher like the common power version. -g

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Hey guys, thank you for your help. I've gotten deeper on both the snatch and the clean, though I still have some work to do. Today I was warming up my snatch using a hang snatch with 135 and I dropped the bar on my head. When I got back to the office, the O-Lifting coach I met Sat. called and wanted to know when I wanted to train.

Realizing my technique is worse than I thought, this Sat. I start training with a live coach. I will keep you all posted, and again thank you.

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Jamie,
I'm watching this thread with much thought. I have the same delimma and I'm trying to find a way to use the bar to pull myself down and I just haven't gotten to it yet.

A good coach is the best way to go.

All the best,
Arden

[Leslie Poole]

Jamie and Arden-
I've be focusing on cleans and snatches quite a bit lately, and have learned a couple things-
box jumps and tall cleans/snatches are excellent for training you to close your hips, and get your heels to your butt fast. Also, doing tall cleans, I FINALLY felt it when I used my arms to pull myself under the bar. It reminds me of swinging under bars on the playground when I was little.

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Leslie et. al,
what do you mean "use your arms to pull yourself under." I'm obviously missing something here. I've read about it, but I just don't get it. Any help on that front would be awesome.


All the best,
Arden

Originally Posted by Leslie Poole

Jamie and Arden-
I've be focusing on cleans and snatches quite a bit lately, and have learned a couple things-
box jumps and tall cleans/snatches are excellent for training you to close your hips, and get your heels to your butt fast. Also, doing tall cleans, I FINALLY felt it when I used my arms to pull myself under the bar. It reminds me of swinging under bars on the playground when I was little.

[Derek Maffett]

Arden, the basic idea is in the whole "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." A force which pulls the bar up is also pulling you down. When the lifter is connected to the ground, the "up" force is affecting the weight of the barbell and the "down" force is affecting the lifter/ground/garage/continent/etc... thus a 400# bar will move a very great distance with X force while the lifter/ground/garage/continent will move extremely little (remember that the "down" force is still only X).

At the third pull, the lifter/ground/garage/continent system is reduced to simply lifter because the connection with the floor is lost. PVC or just the bar will move quite a distance during this third pull because Y force applied to 45# also means Y force applied to a gargantuan lifter such as yourself, and that force will obviously move the smaller load a much greater distance.

Now consider what happens when the barbell is the same weight as the lifter. Z force applied during the third pull will mean the lifter moving downwards due to Z downwards force from the pull and X downwards pull from gravity. The bar will move upwards due to Z upwards force from the pull minus X downwards force from gravity. As the strength of the lifter and weight of the barbell increases, so does the force Z (and the gravitational force affecting the barbell), which will mean an ever-increasing downwards speed of the lifter and a barbell velocity which will be consistently close to zero (or whatever is required for a successful catch - perhaps the velocity could become lower and negative when the speed of the lifter increases sufficiently?).

So pulling under with the arms is a phenomenon which will become more pronounced the greater the weight of the barbell. As long as you are pulling/pressing during the third pull, it will happen automatically.

Sorry for the late answer.

[Derek Maffett]

Oh, yeah - Jamie.

I generally work tall snatches every time I lift. That and insisting on full depth has made it fairly habitual, so that arresting depth in the squat is starting to feel more or less unnatural. It's all about practice and establishing the movement pattern.

Of course, after two months of lifting, you probably didn't even need that advice.

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Thanks so much, It makes sense to me. Now I just gotta make myself do it. If you know what I mean?

All the best,
Arden

Originally Posted by Derek Maffett

Arden, the basic idea is in the whole "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." A force which pulls the bar up is also pulling you down. When the lifter is connected to the ground, the "up" force is affecting the weight of the barbell and the "down" force is affecting the lifter/ground/garage/continent/etc... thus a 400# bar will move a very great distance with X force while the lifter/ground/garage/continent will move extremely little (remember that the "down" force is still only X).

At the third pull, the lifter/ground/garage/continent system is reduced to simply lifter because the connection with the floor is lost. PVC or just the bar will move quite a distance during this third pull because Y force applied to 45# also means Y force applied to a gargantuan lifter such as yourself, and that force will obviously move the smaller load a much greater distance.

Now consider what happens when the barbell is the same weight as the lifter. Z force applied during the third pull will mean the lifter moving downwards due to Z downwards force from the pull and X downwards pull from gravity. The bar will move upwards due to Z upwards force from the pull minus X downwards force from gravity. As the strength of the lifter and weight of the barbell increases, so does the force Z (and the gravitational force affecting the barbell), which will mean an ever-increasing downwards speed of the lifter and a barbell velocity which will be consistently close to zero (or whatever is required for a successful catch - perhaps the velocity could become lower and negative when the speed of the lifter increases sufficiently?).

So pulling under with the arms is a phenomenon which will become more pronounced the greater the weight of the barbell. As long as you are pulling/pressing during the third pull, it will happen automatically.

Sorry for the late answer.