Gant's Hybrid programs

[Peter Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Steven Low

That's my conclusion.

Okay, I'm glad I understood it correctly.

Originally Posted by Steven Low

As you know there's many people on the CF forums who disagree and argue that the best way to go is do CF scaled.

Yeah. I was in one of those discussions and felt like I was bum-rushed for suggesting that maybe starting with a strength basis might be better than scaling. I couldn't really argue very well, because I'm a solo trainee arguing vs. actual certified coaches with clients, so they had the weight of experience and a client base.

Actually one of the reasons I don't post there anymore is I got to realize the answer to all my questions was "do the WOD on the front page 3-on-1-off, as RXed or scaled, eat strict Zone." Pretty much no matter what my situation was. Or my question was, actually.
I doubt I'd get a highly enthusiastic response for my mix of a compressed two-day "Westside for Skinny Bastards" and CF workouts and mixed ME/DE + metcon days on a rigid schedule, but my PRs are all the feedback I need at the moment. Maybe I'd have gotten them scaling CF too, but that just would just show that there is more than one answer.

(Editing later - sorry if that came off as unnecessarily or inappropriately bitter. It's not meant to be. I'm just trying to explain while I stopped posting there and why I appreciate the "multiple approach" methods I see here.)

Originally Posted by Steven Low

At least if your goal is the high strength + high work capacity... where you're starting with low/intermediate strength and low/intermediate/high work capacity.

That makes sense to me. It seems like the approach needed is like any other athletic programming - start with the end point ("I need to do X, Y, and Z by this specific point in time") and work backwards to program. If you've got the space and time, you can afford to do strength-focused and work on metcon as needed to get there. If you don't have the time but need the work capacity (LEO, military, etc. as you mentioned), you might not be able to fit as much strength training in there.

I did this for my last fight - started with "I fight on this day" and worked back. I ended up with more metcon than I'd have otherwise because I knew I needed it and it was an easier thing to improve than my strength given the time limit I had. Now I'm coming back from an injury sustained in that fight (doh), so I'm doing a more strength-centered approach in order to maximize my fitness for the next one. As I get stronger and I get closer to the actual fight I'll change that focus. That's the plan, anyway. What I do on my workout days will owe a bit more to Gant's post at the top of this thread, I can tell you. It's similar to what I'm doing already but it's another tool for the toolbox.

[Patrick Donnelly]

Originally Posted by Steven Low

Don't believe me? Read this stupid thread that wasted half my afternoon.
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=33012

And we appreciate every letter you typed in it.


If you really want to kill an entire day, read this thread for start to finish:
http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=32282

[Steven Low]

Originally Posted by Patrick Donnelly

And we appreciate every letter you typed in it.


If you really want to kill an entire day, read this thread for start to finish:
http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=32282

I've already read that horrible, horrible thread.

CF forums have been getting on my nerves lately. I may have to step out for a couple of weeks, heh.

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Peter that's great you're finding out what works for you.

It really seems that the more you learn, the more everything becomes simplified as in KISS (keep it simple stupid). Don't need anything too complex to progress like most of the programs out there (t-nation half the time as an example). Just eat well, sleep well, lift heavy and do some conditioning and you're golden. Maybe adjust a bit for specific goals, but no need to get fancy with supersets, massive increases in volume, isolation work or whatever else is "in" for the day.

[Mike ODonnell]

Originally Posted by Steven Low

CF forums have been getting on my nerves lately. I may have to step out for a couple of weeks, heh.

...and here I just joined back in them.....after a two year break....

[Peter Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Steven Low

Peter that's great you're finding out what works for you.

I'm still learning, but I'm also making progress at the same time. I'll probably never find out what works "best" for me, but at least I'll find out what works if I keep finding good information like I get here.

Originally Posted by Steven Low

It really seems that the more you learn, the more everything becomes simplified as in KISS (keep it simple stupid).

You can make a lot of progress just by working hard. I find I need some complexity to get past my sticking points - can't just keep doing the same thing with a little more weight on the bar, or by doing just a few more reps. That's how I end up hurt - if I hit a brick wall I need to avoid the temptation of backing up and running at it again to see if it's still in front of me. But the core of it is simple - showing up and working hard. That solves at least 80% of the problems right there.

For the other 20% I find I need to muck around with my programming.

***

And those are ugly threads, but I did browse them and realize a) the CF affiliate I visited my last time in NJ, Crossfit Morris County, was a truly excellent deal. I stole an hour of deadlift technique work. STOLE it. And b) Mark Rippetoe's gym is damn cheap, too bad it's in WF.

[Garrett Smith]

I too have reduced my presence there yet again, but let's keep on topic guys....

Steven, your willingness to answer those threads is amazing. I like the "it's not aerobic" part. Um, the aerobic system is pretty much where we live...we add in the others as necessary...I had to stop reading it after that part as I wanted to keep those minutes of my life.

I've been trying to think of a more catchy name for the hybrid programming, haven't been able to come up with one yet...

[David Stout]

Originally Posted by Steven Low

That's my conclusion.

As you know there's many people on the CF forums who disagree and argue that the best way to go is do CF scaled.

Now, for the people that absolutely need fitness quickly like police, military, firefighters, SWAT and the like it's definitely a better idea for them to go the fitness route (CF scaled). On the other hand, since strength is definitely harder to build than work capacity that's why I'd argue for strength (like SS) or strength biased work (Gant's hybrid program) over solely CF scaled for newer people.

At least if your goal is the high strength + high work capacity... where you're starting with low/intermediate strength and low/intermediate/high work capacity.

Steven I TOTALLY agree with what you said regarding the FIRE, LEO, MILITARY crowd. The randomized, non planned, GPP route probably serves them best.

I feel that maybe the programming approaches this thread discuss are a good option if the following apply to you (just some thoughts):
a. those of us who have never left the novice strength category
b. total beginners to any kind of fitness
c. those that have time (and the willingness) to take a methodical approach to the training through calculated programming
d. not a member of the group mentioned first (fire, leo, military)

So MAYBE we have two approaches here folks. The hierarchy postulated originally by CF (image below, copyright CF Inc.), and a second approach which places the priority to "weightlifting" and THEN metabolic conditioning. On a side note I'd like to see "recovery" included in my pyramid to boot.

[Peter Dell'Orto]

Two questions on the gymnastics warmup - what are 360s? Searches on "360" and "rings" are pulling up a huge amount of unrelated links for me, so I'm not clear what they are.

Second, is there a good video or technical explanation of the "back roll to support"?

[Timothy Holmes]

Peter, go to Drills and Skills (http://www.drillsandskills.com/skills/Rings/) for all you gymnastic movement description needs...

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So, using Gant's hybrid program to develop strength and power first, you will most likely develop your overall fitness quicker. Does there come a time when the focus should be back on metcon?

[Steven Low]

Peter:

"360s" is a Coach Sommer named skill available for viewing on one of his posted youtube vids.

http://gymnasticbodies.com/

Most other skills can be viewed on drillsandskills or through asking unless it's really obscure.

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Timothy:

I would assume you "switch" back to metcon only when you want to. Or when your job requires it. Or for CF games.

Cause well if your goal isn't exactly "increased work capacity over broad modal and time domains" then you might not need the kind of more metcon biased programming that the mainpage WOD offers. Well, that and considering that Gant and Garrett are two people who have said that the traditional 3/1 CF mainpage WODs have the tendency to left them feeling beat up. This is especially the case with older folks who's recovery ability isn't that great. I actually know a lot of people that feel this way (the recovery aspect and feeling beat up) who have good diets and are not older either.

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David:

Good observation. The traditional pyramid is as stated:

1. nutrition
2. metabolic conditioning
3. gymnastics
4. weightlifting and throwing
5. sport

I'd say the modified one may look something like:

1. nutrition
2. strength or power via gymnastics & weightlifting and throwing
3. metabolic conditioning
4. sport

I think recovery is implicit. Any good trainer knows that rest is when the body recovers from fatigue induced by a training program so it's always needed.