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Old 12-30-2009, 06:00 AM   #181
Mark Diffley
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Sorry if I missed this as I was reading through this thread, but based on your programming template, do you stay with those same Oly lifts and strength lifts week to week? I noticed in your training log you change it up frequently it seems. Are you arbitrarily decided which lift to do or is there some logical progression? If you should be mixing it up, how often should I repeat that particular lift?

I was planning on trying the intermediate strength bias for 12 weeks, but just wanted some clarification.

Thank you.

-Mark
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:32 PM   #182
Gant Grimes
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My log differed from the template because of some different things I was trying to do at the time.

I liked the program, and it did a lot of people some good, but I would offer an even simpler version at this point.

For GPP:

M: Snatch, Bench (or push press), Squat
T: Plyo, SM implements, sprints
W: rest
R: Clean, Press, Deadlift
F: skill, stretch, prowler/sled stuff

*for 5-days, add W: skill work, sprints; rest R and train F and S.

Use OLY progressions for the OLY lifts.

For the slow lifts, do 3x5 as a novice and 5/3/1 as an intermediate. If you get stale after a couple years, do 3x12, 3x10, 3x8, 3x6 for three weeks at a time and reset.

I never wrote the article for PM because I didn't want to add to the signal-to-noise ratio on the interwebs. CFFB and CFSB came out several months after the hybrid program and offered more specialized programming with more support.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:40 AM   #183
Brian Stone
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I was going to inquire about this, actually, and whether you still felt the same way about this program with more recent perspective. This looks similar to what Justin posted over on 70sbig recently. I felt that conditioning work was missing from SS but that 5/3/1 was a slow progression, since I'm still novice. This is more like SS w/ conditioning, so I'm going to attempt something similar to this going forward. Cheers!
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:58 AM   #184
Gant Grimes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Stone View Post
I was going to inquire about this, actually, and whether you still felt the same way about this program with more recent perspective. This looks similar to what Justin posted over on 70sbig recently. I felt that conditioning work was missing from SS but that 5/3/1 was a slow progression, since I'm still novice. This is more like SS w/ conditioning, so I'm going to attempt something similar to this going forward. Cheers!
Justin's program evolved from training people in the gym by taking the retarded things out of CF. Mine evolved from training for strength, power, and conditioning for a sport with a lot of GPP overlap. We also see each other every day or so and agree on most aspects of physical training. It's no surprise that they look similar.

I still like my original program, but I was looking for something different then. The conditioning was short but demanding, so I developed a good conditioning base without wasting my muscle. The strength work was good but fairly low volume, so I was strong but not big.

Justin's program isn't designed to deliver any specific conditioning. The conditioning is intentionally limited to maximize strength gains. Mine differs because I have to have the conditioning. Because of my age and activity level, I'm not able to squat 3x5 (or the Texas Method stuff). 5/3/1 works for me because I can hit it once a week and still get good volume on the AMRAP set, thus I'm getting a little more growth than I was on my earlier program.

When designing a mixed program, you have to understand how volume and intensity--not just rep ranges--affect strength and growth. For the short course on periodization and design, go to TMuscle and read everything Jack Reape has written.

BTW, conditioning is not missing from SS. The program is designed to get you stronger and bigger, not fitter. Conditioning will stretch our your linear progression.

5/3/1 can be used for novices or intermediates, but it is not a linear program. You won't get as strong as fast. But, at this point, if I can add 50-60 pounds a year in each lift, I'm happy.
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Last edited by Gant Grimes : 01-06-2010 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:48 AM   #185
Brian Stone
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Quote:
BTW, conditioning is not missing from SS. The program is designed to get you stronger and bigger, not fitter. Conditioning will stretch our your linear progression.
Point taken. I didn't mean to imply it was missing so much that the agressive linear progression didn't leave me with any energy to do conditioning work without sacrificing energy for the big lifts, which were the main focus.

My experience with SS is that, after several week, I noticed that I was short of breath doing what for me has always been pretty rudimentary physical stuff, which I would imagine is the side effect of any linear strength-centric program. 5/3/1 allowed a lot more time/energy for conditioning, but in my opinion at too great a cost to progress in strength. I'm searching out a happy medium; I want to solid strength progression without wheezing every time I walk a few flights of stairs or help move a dresser.

The other observation, for me, is that SS is a lot of stress on my bones and joints without the deload. By week 8, my body was in rough shape, so a month of 5/3/1 following that was the reprieve that I needed. I'm going to make sure to do deload as needed here.

I'll check out the articles. Thanks for the info.
-Brian
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:43 PM   #186
Gant Grimes
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SS can be rough. If you need a deload, take it. 3 weeks on, 1 week 50%.

Having a decent amount of GPP will actually help you get through your workout. Hammer a tire and drag a sled on Wed. Flip the tire and push a prowler on Fri. Your GPP will be fine.
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:19 PM   #187
Gavin Harrison
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Hey guys, I just figured I'd share my experience with SS and 5/3/1, since I've ran both for a while each. For me starting strength is fun, but brutal. I say fun, because I enjoy lifting heavy (for me). I say brutal because, if I nearly got buried under say 200x5x3 one day, two days later I'd be dreading the 205x5x3. I guess it's more of mental thing, but still.

On the other hand, 5/3/1 is fun, but less mentally brutal. The heavy lifting is still very much a part of the program. However, I like the cycling. Lifting a heavier weight with a goal of achieving fewer reps prepares you mentally for what the weight will feel like later when you're expected to lift it for more reps. Also, if I lift a weight and it's brutal, but in the next cycle I hit the weight for reps fairly easily, it's very rewarding. It kind of keeps a weight from getting in your head. Constantly hitting rep/weight PRs helps the mental aspect too.

Another thing to note: because of my schedule, I don't really have time to do a plan similar to a bill starr 5x5 or texas method. That one volume day of squat, bench, deadlift wouldn't fit into any sort of day, usually. Also, I have to work out Mon,Wed,Thurs or Mon,Tues,Thurs... (ie, I have mon-thurs for traning). This kind of restricts full body only routines to either 2 days heavy full-body sets-method (SS, etc) programming, or 4 days Bob Peoples/Pavel like programming, or a split. I'm choosing to do 5/3/1 as written for 3 days/week.

I'm still a novice, due to my on/off working out and programming hopping... but I'm trying to break that. My plan and goal for 2010 is to follow 5/3/1. I think I can hit some very good training numbers by the end of the year, and beyond.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:25 AM   #188
Tim Luby
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How exactly does the 5/3/1 work? Same weight across sets?
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:26 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Luby View Post
How exactly does the 5/3/1 work? Same weight across sets?
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a..._pure_strength

Read this.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:52 AM   #190
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Quote:
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Excellent. Thanks!
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