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Old 06-09-2008, 11:55 AM   #51
Tirzah Harper
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How long do these workouts take, on average?
I ask because I don't usually EVER have more than an hour at the gym once I park my car. And I'm very interested in the novice program.

If you need to tell me to just go try it myself and find out, now, that's cool. I'm just intending to go talk to my CF affiliate owner about doing this program, and don't want to waste his time if it's, say, an hour and a half or so per day.

Thanks!
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:29 PM   #52
Garrett Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Rawls
This isn't going to turn into a yoga forum is it?
No. Not unless yoga involves gymnastics and barbells, which I'm yet to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Rawls
If you're injury-free, you're not trying hard enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gant Grimes
I have finally learned that injuries have less to do with intensity than poor judgment.
I stand behind the wisdom of Mr. Grimes. Injuries / trying too hard / poor judgement are not necessary to achieve what I consider to be fitness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gant Grimes
Yoga involves stretching, so no.
I would attribute a portion of my recent improvement in fitness to an increased time spent in flexibility work, yoga and stretching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gant Grimes
I was referring to enjoying the workout. Just because I'm happy doesn't mean I have feelings for you clowns.

I have enough old injuries popping up that I don't want to create new ones.
Being that proper exercise is the greatest "anti-depressant" or "pro-happy" medicine ever known, I'll enjoy that effect as much as I can. On that note, training injuries (or any other acquired injury or pain) is one of the most depressing things around. I know which one I want to cultivate. I have my own old injuries (mainly one old one) that I aggravate with poor training judgement.

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Old 06-09-2008, 03:03 PM   #53
Garrett Smith
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Tirzah,
I'm getting my entire workouts in definitely less than 90 minutes, most often in 75 min., and in 60 minutes if necessary. A variation on this plan is definitely do-able in an hour, especially if one is starting at the very basic gymnastics stuff.
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:40 PM   #54
Peter Dell'Orto
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Gant,

Very interesting post. It encouraged me to de-lurk and register so I could comment. I was one of the people who jumped in on your 12-week Tabata project over on the CF forums. Sadly I got derailed by injury* but subsequently I've included Tabata exercises in my training schedule because of the great benefits I saw.

I'm really intrigued by this hybrid program. I've done a lot of combined ME + Metcon days thanks to Coach Rut's blog and his MEBB templates. I found I really benefit the most on those. I don't grind myself into the dirt as much as pure metcons did, and I get a lot more overall benefits from including strength work. Your gymnastics + ME + metcon layout is really cool. I hope you do turn it into an article.

Peter V. Dell'Orto


* I was doing Tabata dips, and found out that dips + my shoulder impingement = injury time off. The Tabata once-a-week approach improved my pushup and V-Ups numbers nicely, though, which was really worth the work.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:24 PM   #55
Garrett Smith
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On the Tabata note, I think there is a lot of value there from Gant's prior project. I'm thinking that my 1-2 short metcons that I'll be adding on Mondays and/or Tuesdays will likely be 2 6-round Tabatas (an initial thought was pull-ups and squats one day, push-ups and V-snaps the next, thanks for bringing that up Peter!). Then I can't do too much *and* I'm doing a program that has already been shown to improve general metcon numbers. Can't beat that!
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:26 PM   #56
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You're welcome. I chose my exercises based on what I can do in my apartment, and situp rash is too nasty so I prefer V-Ups.

I've been using 4-round Tabatas for some of my exercises. Gant suggested in his Tabata Project thread that 6 rounds was enough because the reps taper off if you "sell out" on the reps. I noticed on pushups I'd taper off around round 4 or 5, while I could go 8 rounds on V-ups and squats with only a 1 rep variation per round, if that. For pushups with was like X reps, (0.5)*X, 0.33*X, 0.25*X, 0.25*X, etc. so the last rounds were more like lying on the floor listening to the round timer instead of a workout. So I cut those rounds. Maybe less metcon, I figured, but I'd keep the part where I saw progress.

So I tried 4-round Tabatas recently. It's taxing enough to get me going, intense enough to improve my performance for the exercise I use, and yet short enough that I'm not fatigued. So I can use them as much for a warmup or final challenge instead of a full workout. Bang out 4 rounds of pushups with my feet elevated, they get to work on whatever else I'm doing in that workout. If I do a "full" Tabata I go for 6 or 8 rounds, but the short-and-sweet ones I use to improve my speed and efficiency.


***

Back on the main topic, I noticed the program suggests that you DL every week, but I noticed a post by Gant saying DLing every week wore on him. Me too...I've burned myself twice pushing DLs too hard in my programs. How often do you rotate in variations? Every week, do a different kind of pull? Alternate higher volume or maximum effort work with lower volume or speed work?

I've noticed I do better physically when I pull less often and mix in variations, and I get hurt if I try to DL heavy more than a couple weeks in a row.

Thanks!
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Old 06-10-2008, 08:17 AM   #57
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I believe Gant was subbing in rack pulls and/or halting DLs.

I personally have been alternating in my 2x/week SS-inspired workouts:
Normal DLs 1set x 5reps -> Cleans 3x5 -> Sumo DLs 1x5 -> Power Cleans 3x5

So I'm doing a DL variation 1x/week, clean variation 1x/week, each individual variation once every two weeks.
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Old 06-10-2008, 09:15 AM   #58
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i've actually noticed big strength increases in Power Cleaning and Cleans on a more regular basis 2-3x per week. Feels good too.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:55 AM   #59
Garrett Smith
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4 round Tabatas sound even better. I'm going to break into them progressively so I won't have excessive soreness screw up my gymnastics time...

On another note:

I last set a PR on my C&J on 1/3/08 when I was doing the CA WODs faithfully. Life stuff happened, so I stopped most focused OL training around 3/15/08. Been doing prototype/R&D versions of my "hybrid" training up until the present.

The only OL that has been in my program on any kind of regular basis since then has been my SS-inspired cleans & power cleans once a week, as well as my extended modified OL warmups (done with an empty bar at most).

I set a PR in C&J at the PMenu OL seminar this last weekend, improving from 97.5kg to 105kg (+7.5kg, not the 8.5kg I had thought previously, oops).

In training, my pulls had been mostly limited to cleans and deads in sets of 5, my overhead work has been mainly handstands, HSPUs, and some minor BB pressing and metcon DB pressing.

The bar came off the ground better than I expected, and my jerk felt really stable (it actually felt like the easiest part). That's all after 2 full days of many reps with typically anywhere from 45-75# in the OL drills and full lifts. To say I was surprised that a PR happened would be an understatement.

This stuff works.
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Old 06-10-2008, 08:53 PM   #60
Troy Archie
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In regards to your tabata experiences, would you only do one exercise per session or would you do 4 like "Tabata Something Else" but with only 4 intervals per exercise?
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