Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Fitness, Strength & CrossFit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-07-2008, 09:28 PM   #11
Kevin Perry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,670
Default

Steven,

Is this an article in the latest PMenu? If it is im not sure if I have recieved that issue yet o not but I would be interested in reading it since I have my head deep right now in my Exercise physiology text for class and some of this stuff is hard to grasp.
Kevin Perry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 09:40 PM   #12
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

Craig, good points.

From what I looked through in pubmed and google/google scholar basically pretty much none of the HIIT studies are done near max intensity (because then it would be unsustainable). For any of the ones that go over 20 minutes the intensity is markedly lower. There's very few besides tabatas that look at intervals of <=5-10 minutes which is unfortunate.

For example, I think the only one I could find that was relevant to the article that was on REAL sprinting (12s & 24s bouts) is this, but it didn't discuss EPOC or anything just GH/glycerol/etc. (FYI this is reference #24)
http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/co...ct/293/6/R2370

I know extrapolation is a bit weak, but even assuming higher intensity sprints it should be negligible because of these three points. For example, (1) with the higher intensity sprints we cannot sustain that as long and thus we have to cut short our workout quicker. Also, (2) recovery periods for higher intensity exercise needs to be longer than lower intensity HIIT counterparts otherwise lactate threshold/metabolic "burnout" is reached much quicker (aka short rest periods are used for better metabolic conditioning a la CF). Indeed, (3) the higher the intensity the shorter the distance run must also be because higher intensity is also unsustainable short term (not to mention as was previously indicated with intervals & recovery periods). This means there are decreases the calories burned although this may be canceled out by increases in power (work/time) as higher power requires more energy.

When adding up the total sum of these effects, I would project somewhat of a bell curve in regards to intensity increases in HIIT VO2max. In regards to the quote in my sig... some parts of the body also operate on a bell shaped curve such as optimal weight for your genetics, regulation of homeostasis, etc. Like quantum mechanics I really find it funny that if you look deeply into things there's a lot of statistical distribution, logarithmic function or linear increases (such as GH to intensity and IL-6 to duratin of exercise) with regards to living creatures. Though this last paragraph kinda got slightly off topic -_-.


Kevin:

Yes, this is in the latest issue.
__________________
Posts NOT intended as professional medical, training or nutrition advice.
Site // Bodyweight Strength Training Article // Overcoming Gravity Bodyweight Book

Last edited by Steven Low : 07-07-2008 at 09:48 PM.
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 09:51 PM   #13
Peter Dell'Orto
Member
 
Peter Dell'Orto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 122
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
If you want a summary of the "how" we can hash things out in this thread if you want.
The "How" would be a nice followup article. If I understood correctly, the "how" pretty much comes down to doing Tabatas and ME lifting and short metcons, anyway, so it won't change so much about what I do, now. Which is Tabatas and ME lifting and short metcons...

__________________
Peter V. Dell'Orto
My workout log
Peter Dell'Orto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 10:42 PM   #14
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Dell'Orto View Post
The "How" would be a nice followup article. If I understood correctly, the "how" pretty much comes down to doing Tabatas and ME lifting and short metcons, anyway, so it won't change so much about what I do, now. Which is Tabatas and ME lifting and short metcons...

Well, it generally comes down to your goals.

But if you're in it to get stronger and fit (although fit does include strength.. more strength biased fit that is then I guess), then that will work.
__________________
Posts NOT intended as professional medical, training or nutrition advice.
Site // Bodyweight Strength Training Article // Overcoming Gravity Bodyweight Book
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 12:00 AM   #15
Peter Dell'Orto
Member
 
Peter Dell'Orto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 122
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Well, it generally comes down to your goals.
Basically, increase my overall strength, and my strength-endurance, for MMA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
But if you're in it to get stronger and fit (although fit does include strength.. more strength biased fit that is then I guess), then that will work.
"Strength-biased fit" is a good description, I think.

Like I said, the "how" would be a good discussion. Taken that EPOC is not as significant a factor as it's generally though, and that neuroendocrine response is, how should that affect your training? Goals are critical, of course, but you could break it up by broad goals. Say, if your goal is maximum strength, how does this understanding of the neuroendocrine response inform your training? What if fat loss is your primary goal, is your training going to be different than if you think EPOC is the answer?

Just more article potential. I'd ask more direct questions here, but I think I don't know enough to ask a really useful and specific question.
__________________
Peter V. Dell'Orto
My workout log
Peter Dell'Orto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 06:29 AM   #16
Craig Snyder
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hatton, ND
Posts: 130
Default

Thanks for your responses. That does help. Do you know if there is any current research going for shorter duration HIIT?

For direct relavent questions:

Can you outline for us all what is happen to our bodies on an neuroendocrine level when we do the CA WOD? It obviously combines strength training and HIT, which as far as I can understand should make me a testosterone and GH factory. But that is about all that I understand about it.

Is there much of a neuroendocrine change after we switch each 4 week cycle?

Thanks,
Craig
Craig Snyder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 07:02 AM   #17
Mike ODonnell
Senior Member
 
Mike ODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,596
Default

Good technical article....hard to read just once and suck it all in...as it's just not an easy subject to tackle with all the possible variations in training and nutrition. I liked the "death of EPOC"....so sick of hearing that. That and was interested to see the whole SNS being brought in. Good stuff.....the more I look into all that, the more I am starting to think that the success of IF and non-metabolic slowdown is all about sustained SNS in the morning hours.....add in a cold shower and some coffee and you have a powerful fat burning environment.
__________________
Fitness Spotlight
The IF Life
Mike ODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 06:53 PM   #18
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Snyder View Post
Thanks for your responses. That does help. Do you know if there is any current research going for shorter duration HIIT?

For direct relavent questions:

Can you outline for us all what is happen to our bodies on an neuroendocrine level when we do the CA WOD? It obviously combines strength training and HIT, which as far as I can understand should make me a testosterone and GH factory. But that is about all that I understand about it.

Is there much of a neuroendocrine change after we switch each 4 week cycle?

Thanks,
Craig
I don't know of much research with shorter duration HIIT. Only stuff I can think of is only generally anecdotal stuff with people in the fitness community, heh.

As for CA WOD.. depends what you're actually doing. I can't really produce any numbers or anything if that's what you're asking but generally if you're lifting high intensity (closer towards 1 RM) the more response you get... but volume as to be higher to elicit a stronger volume response.

As far as 4 week cycle, the way I can generally tell if something is happening is if facial hair is growing faster or getting more acne. That generally means more testosterone/GH production. Noticable hypertrophy is also a good indicator. At least that's from observation. It really depends on how tough the cycle is and how you back off it; if you're getting beat down and feeling like crap generally you get a good supercompensation effect during a "rest" week.

--------------


Yeah MOD I agree. Relating it specifically to different workouts... I don't think there is a point to that. It's generally a cumulative effect much like you can't see noticable strength results from just one session (except if you're doing like SS or something). It's more of a combination of workouts giving an effect... combined with sleep and nutrition factors.
__________________
Posts NOT intended as professional medical, training or nutrition advice.
Site // Bodyweight Strength Training Article // Overcoming Gravity Bodyweight Book
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 09:25 PM   #19
Liam Dougherty Springer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 338
Default

I love the information in the article. It seems like an instructional guide to metabolic hormone release across variouse exercise platforms.

I wondered though why is it that HIIT is so much better at burning fat?

I understand the difference in the hormone release between it and EF and why each of them are capable of burning fat. However the article speaks of IL-6 and the multitude of hormones increased in resistance training at higher intensity. but it dosen't offer why the increased IL-6 of EF is so much less effective in fat burning than the hormones involved with HIIT.

Now i did get that it is the case and have found it to be so in my own experience but I would love any information you may have as to why.
Liam Dougherty Springer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 09:41 PM   #20
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Dougherty Springer View Post
I love the information in the article. It seems like an instructional guide to metabolic hormone release across variouse exercise platforms.

I wondered though why is it that HIIT is so much better at burning fat?

I understand the difference in the hormone release between it and EF and why each of them are capable of burning fat. However the article speaks of IL-6 and the multitude of hormones increased in resistance training at higher intensity. but it dosen't offer why the increased IL-6 of EF is so much less effective in fat burning than the hormones involved with HIIT.

Now i did get that it is the case and have found it to be so in my own experience but I would love any information you may have as to why.
"although overproduction of IL-6 is related to muscle atrophy due to increases in a class of lysosomal proteases (protein breakdown) [31]. These effects are due to both direct and indirect responses such as a balance between stimulation of anabolic processes like the myoblast proliferation and hormones such as vascular endothelial growth factor (capillary vascularization) juxtaposed against catabolic processes like the aforementioned lysosomal proteases."

I'd check out source 31 for more info. I think that was a full text article so check it out; the whole thing is pretty good and A LOT more in depth than I went into obviously.
__________________
Posts NOT intended as professional medical, training or nutrition advice.
Site // Bodyweight Strength Training Article // Overcoming Gravity Bodyweight Book
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:56 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator