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Old 07-10-2008, 08:37 AM   #1
Brandon Enos
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Default Running as only form of lower body work...

Okay, thanks to this article by the wonderful MOD, http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/200...n-and-not-jog/, I have started trail running at least two days a week, usually three. On weeks that I only go twice, I spend my third running focus going to the high school track and doing some 100m sprints followed by running stairs.

I have also decide to, at least presently, forsake the barbell. Working up to heavy squats, deads, bench, etc was not really concurrent with my two main goals, getting healthy and preparring for the sheriffs academy. So I have decided to do my workouts around bodyweight and KBs (for swings).

My upper body is fine, but for my lower body, I have began using box pistols. Well yesterday, I finally got down to parallel and today I went trail running again and my quads gave out before any other leg muscle, or my cardiopulmonary system. Im thinking of getting rid of the leg work on my resistance days, using sandbag deadlifts (for reduced ROM) or some other lower back exercise (using only bw, KBs, or SB), and letting my trail running (where I go its about 90% hills, 10% flat) and track sprints/stairs be my only leg training. I know its not going to get me any record breaking squats or deads, but as far as general health and preparing for the academy, should that be enough? I think it will be, but I know a lot of people on here have a lot more expierence and knowledge than me, so I figured it cant hurt to ask.
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:15 PM   #2
John Schneider
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Some people think that you can get enough leg work just from running...

Those people are idiots. You are doing ok with the hills, the sprints, and the stairs, but it looks to me like you discovered a weakness by having your quads crap out on the run the day after doing box pistols. Rather than running form the problem, you should embrace it and make it a strength.

Maybe reducing the volume will help until you get conditioned for it, but your body will eventually adapt. Stronger legs will help you run faster.

Also, learning to run more efficiently might help you as well. Do a search for Pose running.
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:18 PM   #3
Mike ODonnell
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Cycle your workouts with hill running, sprints, strength training....trying to do too much all at once will negatively effect them all. A good leg program will cycle and work on strength, power and endurance. Sprinters still do squats. You could do strength for legs 1x a week, sprints 1x a week, and longer hill runs 1x a week....giving plenty of time for recovery and increased performance...as that is the key...you should see increased performance with training...otherwise why do we train? You could also incorporate lower intensity training in the mix, like hiking with a 25lb pack.

That and depending on your BF%....it's always easier to run if you lose fat.

Do what you enjoy also....as consistency is the only way to any results. My runs are 20-30 min about 3x a week....but they do not take away from strength training at least 1x a week in some fashion (even if that is doing 1 legged squats or weighted lunges).
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:28 PM   #4
R. Alan Hester
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Brandon,

I say go for it and try it out. If running is a goal for the academy--and it is--then you should practice that. I went from running only for leg fitness to heavy squats. Neither extreme was optimal for me, but the former got me through SF Selection and Qualification courses as well as up mountains with 100 pounds of gear. The latter got me winded and took away form my need for endurance with the ability to recover. Should have the middle.

I think Dan John has posited that hill sprints is all an athlete may need for leg strength. I like that but I would add some lunges also, as single leg movements are more common in LEO situation (e.g., running stairs, dragging officers out of fire, etc).

I like MODs approach.
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:16 PM   #5
Gittit Shwartz
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I don't know about "running" but, looking back, beyond getting to basic strength levels, hill sprints and plyometrics are what always gave me the most noticeable and applicable improvements. I guess it comes down to "if you want to be explosive, do explosive work".
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:23 PM   #6
Brandon Enos
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This question follows along the same lines, sorta. I am planning on going back to weights within a few months. When I was doing SS along with running on my non-lifting days, my legs were done, squats 3 days a week killed me. For this reason, when I go back to the barbell, I was thinking of doing a weekly split that only had me lifting for my legs once a week since Ill be doing the same running routine as the one described above.

So something like upper body Mon and Fri, legs Wed
or upper body pushing one day, upper body pulling one day, and legs another
or another of the 100s if not thousands of variations.

Im basically looking for a way to get good leg workouts in with out negatively impacting my running or my strength negatively (again, I know Im never going to be world class in either by training both, but Im not looking to win a marathon, squat 900 pounds, or compete in the olympics, this is mostly just for general health).
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Old 07-20-2008, 03:49 AM   #7
Timothy Holmes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gittit Shwartz View Post
I don't know about "running" but, looking back, beyond getting to basic strength levels, hill sprints and plyometrics are what always gave me the most noticeable and applicable improvements. I guess it comes down to "if you want to be explosive, do explosive work".
A guy that trains at my track occasionally does nothing but running and plyometrics. He runs 10.7 in the 100m.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:04 AM   #8
Steve Forman
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Holy Cow!!!

I sprinted the hills only 3 minutes from my house. they are the mtn biking trails I usually do. What A workout, thanks MOD.

I felt awesome the next day. A great workout, my legs, calves and abs were torn up.

I will do it again next week.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:24 AM   #9
Alex Bond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Enos View Post
This question follows along the same lines, sorta. I am planning on going back to weights within a few months. When I was doing SS along with running on my non-lifting days, my legs were done, squats 3 days a week killed me. For this reason, when I go back to the barbell, I was thinking of doing a weekly split that only had me lifting for my legs once a week since Ill be doing the same running routine as the one described above.

So something like upper body Mon and Fri, legs Wed
or upper body pushing one day, upper body pulling one day, and legs another
or another of the 100s if not thousands of variations.

Im basically looking for a way to get good leg workouts in with out negatively impacting my running or my strength negatively (again, I know Im never going to be world class in either by training both, but Im not looking to win a marathon, squat 900 pounds, or compete in the olympics, this is mostly just for general health).
I'm not surprised your legs were dying trying to run on your SS rest days! There are rest days for a reason!

Basically, you have to pick one to emphasize over the other. If you actually want stronger legs, you'll have to deal with only running any kind of distance once or maybe twice a week. If you can't stand that, you'll have to deal with the fact that squatting once a week won't make you stronger like SS will.

One of the major reasons SS works, and something most people don't do, is the phenomenal squatting load. If you actually squat 3 times a week and actually increase the weight every workout, as a novice is supposed to under the program, you will be pushing your body really hard, and if supplied with sufficient milk and rest, you body will undergo major changes for the stronger, in your muscles, your nervous system, your hormonal system, everything.

Now most people don't actually increase the weight every workout as they should - it's really hard, and unless you're young and growing anyways, it's tough to do for any extended period of time. I bring this up to counteract the notion many have that SS can be fitted in with other programs, or used in conjunction with whatever, or blah blah blah. You can use the powerlifts in this way and do SS-style workouts, yes, but SS is a program all of its own, to be done alone, by itself, and at an incredible intensity. If you're not just doing SS, you're not doing SS. I hear people say "Oh, I alternate SS and CF workouts" or whatever - they alternate powerlifting and CF workouts, and don't do SS at all.

Now, if you don't want to do SS, that's totally cool - from the way you describe your goals, you probably shouldn't - but don't pretend that you can get the full possible benefits of SS without following the program to the letter.

Sorry if I kind of came down on you hard - this isn't directed at any one person, but more at people in general who combine SS and other programs and wonder why they don't get as strong as they could.
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