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Old 07-19-2008, 10:55 AM   #11
Arien Malec
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I could go on and on about how the largely plant based diet of our forebears affects our biochemistry but I'll stick to the simple fact that our bodies need to remain slightly alkaline (ph of around 7.4 if memory serves) and as fat has a nearly neutral PRAL value the only diet that makes sense in terms of balancing the acid load produced by animal foods (and grains if you're inclined towards the neolithic) is one with a plant to animal food ratio of 70 - 80% plants and 20 -30% animals and when you break that down into macronutrient ratios you end up with ~65% carbs, 15% protein and 20% fat.
Darryl, if you look back at this thread, you'll realize that the original instructors are arguing for a grain-based high carbohydrate diet. If you want to argue that point, go for it, but you'll be wrong. I think you are arguing for a high paleo carbohydrate diet -- I'm not sure if you are arguing for high paleo carbs by volume or by calories -- there's a huge difference since paleo carbs tend not to be nutrient dense.

As I'm sure you also know, our paleolithic ancestors subsisted on a wide range of foods, from the Inuit who ate a high fat very low carbohydrate diet, and did quite well, to the pacific islanders who ate mostly coconuts and fish, to the !Kung San who eat 60% (by volume) mongongo nuts and meat, 40% plants, and by calories, eat 60% fat, to Native Americans, who ate anywhere between high fat and protein diets supplemented by plants, to California Natives, who ate 50% acorns, by volume.

You aren't going to find paleolithic evidence for high grain or sugar-based carbohydrate diets, which is what the dietary reference in the original post was advocating.

Again, if you want to argue for a diet that is high in greens, tubers such as turnips and sweet potatoes, and fermented corn, you can find some justification in our nutritional past and in the nutritional present in longer lived communities. But that's not what's being argued by the nutritionists, and there's equal evidence for a high fat moderate protein diet supplemented by plant material.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:24 PM   #12
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Sorry but im not here spouting my young "I know more than my instructors" crap.
If they are overweight and on medications.....feel free.

That and question everything....don't just be taught. The system as a whole is broken....so it's going to take people questioning what is accepted as standard in order to start to change things....

Ask your instructors why as a trainer whose clients are most likely overweight, should they eat a high carbohydrate diet that floods the body with insulin when that is a fat storing hormone.....or just print out the article on Dr Rosedale's seminar from the blog and ask for their opinion.

Challenge them.....question them....make them give you an answer besides "It's in the book"...and if they say "Well you need to burn carbs for energy" then ask how one is supposed to burn fat then?
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:45 PM   #13
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Man this thread is great. I am looking into going back to school for a bachlers in dietetics. There is a very indepth program at a college near me and it includes alot of food science and bio chemestry. I am excited in gaining a more intimate knowledge base in this area but I am afraid that most of the classes will all be presenting a modern high carbohydrate diet bias without regard for more recent reserch findings.

I currently have read and own a small library of modern dietetic books and have begun helping people find a way to make better decisions as to their food choices. I am not sure I am actually interested in being a nutritionist as much as a "Life Coach". I cant decide if the schooling is a good path to reach my goals. Any thoughts?
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:49 PM   #14
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I currently have read and own a small library of modern dietetic books and have begun helping people find a way to make better decisions as to their food choices. I am not sure I am actually interested in being a nutritionist as much as a "Life Coach". I cant decide if the schooling is a good path to reach my goals. Any thoughts?
Legally you can't give out any nutritional advice unless you are a registered dietician which requires schooling....the same schooling that will tell you that fat is bad and carbs are what everyone needs. See how the system is broken?
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:13 PM   #15
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Legally you can't give out any nutritional advice unless you are a registered dietician which requires schooling....the same schooling that will tell you that fat is bad and carbs are what everyone needs. See how the system is broken?
I was talking to the proffesor of the program about what nutritional advice exactly means. She explaned it is the statement that a specific diet will treat a specific condition. In this way you have given athority to your opinion. In a sence you are prescribing a dietary treatment. However here is the rub..... It is not against any current laws to help someone make a decision they believe may help them reach their life goals, regardless of what they are. As long as you give no athority to your opinion and state that it is simply something you have tried or have read about others trying you are merley expanding the possibility of options in a persons life.

Apparently people do this and they are called Life or Health or even Fitness Coaches. Seems kind of lame and honestly kind of dangerouse to have this be your profession without any formal accredidation and at the same time ....

.... and at the same time it almost makes more sense. I mean it is obviouse this system is broken and that registered nutrtional athority is currently in my persception a very poor measurement of true affective health guidence. So wouldn't it be better to talk to someone who just has a way of life I find atractive and have them guid me? When I think of it this way I could find no more valuble profession when wanting to help the people around me.

This is not to say I don't want to be a regisered dieticion.
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Old 07-19-2008, 03:34 PM   #16
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Just do what you think is best to reach the people you want to reach....but even as a registered dietician can one tell people anything they want? Or do they still have to perscribe only what is approved dogma for eating? I don't know that answer.
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Old 07-19-2008, 04:16 PM   #17
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A little note on biochemistry... if you don't like enzymes don't do that. It's more geared towards lab work. While you will be educated thoroughly in the body's energy metabolism, they won't really go over how it translates with hormones, nutrition and other stuff (well, at least my school did and I don't believe many others will as well).

I have personally learned more on the Internet than I ever did in school, ironically or not.
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:11 PM   #18
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Just do what you think is best to reach the people you want to reach....but even as a registered dietician can one tell people anything they want? Or do they still have to perscribe only what is approved dogma for eating? I don't know that answer.
Actually that was something I asked her about she said if you are registered you can prescribe diets outside of govt. aproved dietary guidelines. That being said I think alot of the buisnesses that employ dieticions have their own requirements as to what you are allowed to perscribe.

Steve I have a formal interveiw in a couple weeks I will be sure and bring up whether or not we will get in depth as to hormonal interactions with diet thanx. Anything else I should look for in a good program?

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Old 07-19-2008, 08:46 PM   #19
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A little note on biochemistry... if you don't like enzymes don't do that. It's more geared towards lab work. While you will be educated thoroughly in the body's energy metabolism, they won't really go over how it translates with hormones, nutrition and other stuff (well, at least my school did and I don't believe many others will as well).

I have personally learned more on the Internet than I ever did in school, ironically or not.

I think this is true also but depends on what community you end up attaching to. I would never have learned about the dangers of high carb diets, or what insulin sensitivity is, paleo, etc had I not found Pmenu or CF. Look at how much the bodybuilding forums are flooded with ignorance compared to here and im glad I came to the dark side (or the light side or whatever side you want to call it).
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:01 PM   #20
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Actually that was something I asked her about she said if you are registered you can prescribe diets outside of govt. aproved dietary guidelines. That being said I think alot of the buisnesses that employ dieticions have their own requirements as to what you are allowed to perscribe.

Steve I have a formal interveiw in a couple weeks I will be sure and bring up whether or not we will get in depth as to hormonal interactions with diet thanx. Anything else I should look for in a good program?
Seriously though with biochem you're going to be taking a crapton of science classes most of which will not relate towards exercise much at all besides the metabolism stuff I mentioned. If anything, if you just take the upper level biochemistry courses (well, the one that was good was biochemistry II aka metabolism of carbs/protein/nucleic acids/amino acids) -- biochem I and biochem III for us were basically working with enzymes/machines for the first and chemistry + function of nucleic acids/ribonucleic acids/protein synthesis. At least that's what I experienced plus you gotta take all the other misc. courses like organic chem (not really relatable to exercise/nutrition), physical chemistry (basically chemistry + calculus + quantum mechanics) and other stuff like that which doesn't relate either. Plus labs with enzymes and quantitative analysis like I mentioned. Probably not the anticipated route that you want.

I went to Univ. of Md. by the way, so a major college biochemistry major.

Might be better off with something like dietetics/nutrition + exercise physiology combo.... (I think some schools offer a program that does both or something o_o). Obviously, you NEED to take anatomy and physiology which is good plus maybe something like mammalian physiology or something like that. Not sure if they offer anything specific classes on endocrine function although my college had a specific course on central nervous system (I should've taken that instead of stupid environmental plant physiology, lol). Oh well.

Yeah, stuff is pretty limited because most people think exercise and diet (and sleep) are separate entities when they all need to be functioning together to get good results.... sad. That's why tons of studies nowadays are crap cause such variables aren't controlled....
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