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Old 07-29-2008, 07:09 AM   #11
Darryl Shaw
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Trygve Lunde,

First off, Brad Pitt and those guys in 300 are pampered actors who only have to keep going until the director yells "cut" whereas you're a profesional athlete whose performance over 90 minutes pays the bills so you can't afford to screw around too much with your diet in case you harm your performance.
It would probably be a good idea therefore if you read a few sports nutrition books before trying IF, paleo or following the advice of some random asshole on the internet (apologies everyone). These days any half decent book store should have a shelf full of books on sports nutrition so there's plenty for you to choose from but I'd recommend anything by Anita Bean, Louise Burke or Nancy Clark and if after you've read them and you have some understanding of how your body might respond to changes in your diet you feel like experimenting with paleo or IF then go for it just remember that it's how you perform that counts not how you look.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:40 AM   #12
Steven Low
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Originally Posted by Trygve Lunde View Post
I understand. But the thing is, my work as a soccer player requires carb since the intensity is higher then 75% av Maximum heart rate. And that means the muscles can only use glycogen as fuel. But for for the rest i have reason to believe that fat is the right fuel for the body and that the first people ate that as there food. So i think its the most suted for the body to work best. So the question is how can i do this? use fat as fuel and get enough carb so my performance on the soccer field will be great? do u you have any advice? regarding % from each carb, fat and protein. protein is ok since its around 1g/lb
Sigh. Okay, seriously. Go read this thread.

http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...ead.php?t=2736

You *DO NOT* need high carbs playing soccer, cycling, etc. If you are a person who operates well on high carbs, that's another story. But MOST people this is not the case and represents a misunderstanding in how much the body can provide energy for itself through lipid metabolism.
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:45 PM   #13
Trygve Lunde
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i understand what your saying. But i think there is so much more to nutrition thats why i really want to explore it and find the best approach to it, so i can reach my goals as a soccer player and my fat %. Maybe i should look for some of the books you mentioned, but its seems like all the sports people are carbs all the way no matter what. Thats why im a little sceptical because i know about the insulin and i know about all the good benefits from running your body on fat, but you cant run it on fat when the exersices becomes more intens ofcourse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
Trygve Lunde,

First off, Brad Pitt and those guys in 300 are pampered actors who only have to keep going until the director yells "cut" whereas you're a profesional athlete whose performance over 90 minutes pays the bills so you can't afford to screw around too much with your diet in case you harm your performance.
It would probably be a good idea therefore if you read a few sports nutrition books before trying IF, paleo or following the advice of some random asshole on the internet (apologies everyone). These days any half decent book store should have a shelf full of books on sports nutrition so there's plenty for you to choose from but I'd recommend anything by Anita Bean, Louise Burke or Nancy Clark and if after you've read them and you have some understanding of how your body might respond to changes in your diet you feel like experimenting with paleo or IF then go for it just remember that it's how you perform that counts not how you look.
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:53 PM   #14
Trygve Lunde
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My weekly schedule looks like this, so if it makes it easier for you guys to answear how much i should eat from fat,carb and protein here it is.

Sunday: Soccer game at 18:00 90 minutes
Monday: restitution 10:00 in the morning(jogging etc.) and strengt training (45 minutes 3x10 or 5x5 depends) also tell me what you think i should train.

Tuesday: Day off. Here im open for something that will make my body looks better, or performance in soccer increase or fat loss.

Wednestay: Soccer practice 10:00 in the morning. 1-2 hours high intensity. And strengt training after this session, any inputs?

Thursday: practice 10:00 1-2 hour high intensity

Friday: practice 10:00 in the morning, 1-2 hour moderate intensity. Should i do strengt training etc. after?

Saturday: day off, relaxing and preparing for match.

So any input on Food etc. when i have this schedule and for my goals. im around 15% body fat now. And i want to get much leaner. As you can see players like Cristiano Ronaldo etc. are very very lean and many other top players. And also mention things like IF, i dont have anything against working out on empty stomach? can i do IF 8/16 hour thing every day of the week? or is it to much? etc. any more inputs i would love
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:27 PM   #15
John Alston
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You are a professional athlete. Just by being that you've accomplished a lot more than 99.9% of net athletes.
Just curious as to what accomplishments you've seen from the above posters that makes you want to take their advice.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:28 PM   #16
Trygve Lunde
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Hehe
i just want to improve all the time, and i think this is a place where there are many smart people.


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Originally Posted by John Alston View Post
You are a professional athlete. Just by being that you've accomplished a lot more than 99.9% of net athletes.
Just curious as to what accomplishments you've seen from the above posters that makes you want to take their advice.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:41 PM   #17
Tom Rawls
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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
You *DO NOT* need high carbs playing soccer, cycling, etc.
Steven,

Do you know of any elite cyclists (e.g. ride in the Tour de France) who restrict carbs?

Is your advice more for receational athletes, who I presume would ride at lower intensity and be less likely to deplete glycogen supplies on long rides?
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:10 PM   #18
Mike ODonnell
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Carbs are not the enemy...and I agree...I don't know any professional athletes who go without it....the amounts and how you eat are up for debate. Better body composition will no doubt increase performance (in losing fat....well to a certain level as super low bf% will have a point of diminishing returns). From my personal experience of playing ice hockey....I am good for a whole game with full muscle glycogen....I bonk and get run down without it. Me and low carb for a game...ain't going to happen....but doesn't mean I am eating high carb all the time either. In my guess soccer does have explosive glycolitic burst to get a ball or get around defenders....so having no speed or impaired speed can be the difference between not making the team next year....or being the lead goal scorer.

Trygyve, Dr Rosedale has some good info on carbs and insulin if you want to learn more as I did a post about it here and his original and longer transcript can be found here. Consider sugar your turbo boost...which is important to most sports. That and it can make the difference between being an average athlete or top on your team. You obviously got the skill part down...now if you can optimize the nutrition to best suit your body, you should see great results. Here's an interesting quote from Dr Rosedale:
Quote:
With athletes, let's think about that. What is the effect of carbohydrate loading before an event. What happens if you eat a bowl of pasta before you have to run a marathon. What does that bowl of pasta do? It raises your insulin. What is the instruction of insulin to your body?

To store energy and not burn it. I see a fair amount of athletes and this is what I tell them, you want everybody, athletes especially, to be able to burn fat efficiently. So when they train, they are on a very low carbohydrate diet. The night before their event, they can stock up on sugar and load their glycogen if they would like.

They are not going to become insulin resistant in one day. Just enough to make sure, it has been shown that if you eat a big carbohydrate meal that you will increase your glycogen stores, that is true and that is what you want. But you don't want to train that way because if you do you won't be able to burn fat, you can only burn sugar, and if you are an athlete you want to be able to burn both.

Few people have problems burning sugar if they are an athlete, but they have lots of problems burning fat, so they hit the wall. And for a certain event like sprinting it is less important, truthfully, for their health it is very important to be able to burn fat, but a sprinter will go right into burning sugar. If you are a 50 yard dash man, whether you can burn fat or not is not going to make a huge difference in your final performance.
Lesson being...master the art of carb timing and cycling....if your goal is maximum body composition and performance.
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Last edited by Mike ODonnell; 07-29-2008 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:33 PM   #19
Steven Low
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Alston View Post
You are a professional athlete. Just by being that you've accomplished a lot more than 99.9% of net athletes.
Just curious as to what accomplishments you've seen from the above posters that makes you want to take their advice.
I concur. Find out what works for you. If you think something else can help you go for it. If you want to keep the same diet and it's working well then just stay with it.


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Originally Posted by Tom Rawls View Post
Steven,

Do you know of any elite cyclists (e.g. ride in the Tour de France) who restrict carbs?

Is your advice more for receational athletes, who I presume would ride at lower intensity and be less likely to deplete glycogen supplies on long rides?
Uh? First, relative intensity is what matters for glycogen depletion at least intramuscularly. Secondly, intramuscular glycogen stores are LIMITED. Meaning, the more carbs you take in DOES NOT TRANSLATE to an increase in glycogen storage in the muscle after a certain point in training (pretty much past ~novice/intermediate level). For example, you will ALWAYS run out of glycogen reserves ~250-300m into a 400m sprint whether you're a novice or an elite athlete.

The liver has approximately 2000-2500 calories worth of glycogen stored it in to release during exercise. This is enough to take you 22-24 miles into a marathon without depletion; it's a whole hell of a lot of glycogen. Yes, high intensity exercise stimulates both lipolysis and glycogenolysis (via catecholamines, IL-6, etc. as you may have read in neuroendocrine reponse). Basically, your liver during exercise is pumping glucose into your blood which is being uptaken into muscle cells. Adding glucose peri-workout and post workout can help uptake albeit it's better when combined with protein (hence all studies on BCAAs and such).

In any case, massive carb macronutrient % for repletion of glycogen reserves basically does nothing at all *except* peri or post workout as stated. Again, as soon as intramuscular glycogen is full, the rest is going to adipose tissue. Since the body can metabolize fat to anything it wants (except essential amino acids and essential fatty acids), it can transform it into glucose for the muscles to resupply glycogen reserves. This is why I am saying you do not need a high carb diet. Some athletes may function well on it; some may even have elite performance. That does not mean that they wouldn't do better (or even would not do better) with a change in diet.

I think you all are misunderstanding what I am saying. Basically, I am saying that there is no reason to eat 70% carbs with every meal as main macros unless you're one of the few who function well on high carbs all the time. High fat percentage may be good; but it may be necessary to have sports drinks or whatever during or after a workout/game to keep performance levels high. Like MOD has said.. consider sugar the turbo boost during workout. But eating 70% carbs or higher the rest of the time isn't going to do crap to improve glycogen repletion or anything like that.

I hope this makes more sense.
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Last edited by Steven Low; 07-29-2008 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:43 PM   #20
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell View Post

Lesson being...master the art of carb timing and cycling....if your goal is maximum body composition and performance.
Thanx MOD this is what I have been thinking/saying for a while and the quote really supports my thought. If insuline keeps us from burning fat, glycogen and even aids in sparing protien from consumtion it alows us only one pathway for energy, digested carbohydrates as blood glucose. This means as soon as you run out of blood sugar which will be either burned or stored a.s.a.p. you will be out of gas and the remaning insuline will make it impossible to tap your natural energy storage. The only way to get more energy at this point would be to down some sugar assuming you can rest long enough for you to absorb it which seems rather unlikely in professional soccer.

So how about a training low carb high fat then two days before a competition have a high rep anabolic workout (full body or concentrating on the primary muscles for your sport) and in the couple hours post have a couple hundred grams of glucose (Yams, carrots, sprouted grains, grapes, berries) . Then have a day of high fat "zone type eating" while you rest for the competition the next day. Have your last meal a few hours before you go to bed and eat light and very low carb leading into the competition. It seems this could very well leave you full of glycogen well rested, recovered and ready for maximum stored energy use.

I don't know it is just something I have played with givin alot of the info I have come across.... any one have an opinion?
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