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Old 10-01-2008, 05:11 PM   #71
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Originally Posted by joe waguespack View Post
Whole laod was done with oatmeal, blueberries, sprouted grain bread, sushi and half a pint of ice cream at the very end. I felt fine all day, no bloat or sick feelings and I only gained 5 lbs this week instead of 18 like last week. I took in a total of about 500g carbs from 95% clean sources and it definitely made all the difference in the world.
Sounds alot more like what I experienced in water weight gains. That 18 lbs. was scary. lol

I think it would make since to use fruits like berries, bannanas, and grapes in the first carb up meal as they are higher in Glucose than some will provide some good enzymes when raw and also will get the insulin going which helps when storing glycogen. Plus intitially your liver is going to need some glycogen and with all the fat you eat you want a healthy liver.
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Old 10-12-2008, 10:38 AM   #72
Patrick Yeung
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Ive been following this thread for awhile now behind the scenes.

What happened to it? I loved readin about how it was giong because I was interested in trying this.

I have been trying to cut out carbs but I just crave em too much, so slowly takin a little out at a time.

One question though. How many carbs are you eating on the days youre not loading.

I am familiar with block porportions as well.

Thanks
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:15 PM   #73
joe waguespack
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Originally Posted by Patrick Yeung View Post
Ive been following this thread for awhile now behind the scenes.

What happened to it? I loved readin about how it was giong because I was interested in trying this.

I have been trying to cut out carbs but I just crave em too much, so slowly takin a little out at a time.

One question though. How many carbs are you eating on the days youre not loading.

I am familiar with block porportions as well.

Thanks
Still going with the diet, nothing spectacular to report lately. I'm going to stick with it for a while , but I think I was leaner and felt better when I was eating more balanced ratios of carbs, fats, and proteins. I was reading that it actually takes a few months of being on the diet to become completely "fat adapted" , so I'm going to stick it out a little longer. I also think that some people respond better to carbs than others, and I may be one of those people. I was never a huge carb eater mainly fruits, veggies and oatmeal.

As far the days I'm not carb loading I keep my carb intake under 30 grams. I get at least 20 grams of fiber and all my carbs come from vegetables. Right now I have dropped my calories to 2000 a day with a 60% fat, 35% pro and 5% carb breakdown. I also think I was leaning out more and feeling better when my calories were higher , around 3000. I may try raising my calories up again next week and see what happens. That would be strange if I dropped weight and fat on higher calories.
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:58 AM   #74
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I'm done! I decided to end this AD experiment. It seems to work great for a lot of people but I am not one of them. I think the initial shift is great from dropping carbs and upping fat , while keeping cals high. I definitely leaned out ( due to dropping water) and it was nice to eat good high fat foods for a while. But it definitely started to taper off for me after a while. I began to noticeably add bodyfat , even as I dropped calories. I attempted to up my cals for a week and see if I felt better , but I did not. Low Carbs does not work for everyone, especially going low carbs at the expense of fruit and veggies, and beer ( which were my main carb sources anyway).

I guess I just respond better to a Zone type of breakdown, still basically lower carb and higher fat than most diets, but just enough to keep me feeling, looking, and performing well. I have added fruits and oatmeal back into my diet for the past couple of days and already see and feel a positive difference. I know some that get super lean on 0 carbs and have no issues with performance, but I am not one of them.

Zone ratios with mostly Paleo food choices combined with Intermittent fasting is my formula for success.

Experimentation is over, I will never stray again.
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Old 10-23-2008, 10:04 AM   #75
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Low Carbs does not work for everyone, especially going low carbs at the expense of fruit and veggies, and beer ( which were my main carb sources anyway).

Zone ratios with mostly Paleo food choices combined with Intermittent fasting is my formula for success.
Well at least you learned what does and does not work for you.....I am also one of those that does not do well low carb (tried it long ago....was horendous). Using IF and having more carbs on workout days works well for me....without going overboard (otherwise I'll be messed up with blood sugar crashes for the whole day). I like the slow and steady route....that and I like my beer too.
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:11 AM   #76
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You might want to try the moderate version of the metabolic diet before going back to zone. The strict version of the metabolic diet is the old anabolic diet. The moderate version is about 100g carbs during the week with an optional mid-week carb reload and higher carbs during the weekend. Throw in some IF as desired. I prefer this to zone.

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http://www.metabolicdiet.com/images/md_tshoot.pdf
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:07 PM   #77
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Im with ya Joe.

Just three weeks into it, and I was looking noticably tired, let alone feeling it. And on top of that, my workouts were suffering after the first week. I started putting on bf and I didnt have the urge to workout, or rather energy to.

I tried to Friday, and dislocted my shoulder on a power clean. First time, quite painful and no fun. Now, ive got myself a nice setback, not sure how long it takes for these to heal though.

Im off it, goin back with zone ratios, and trying to expand my window longer.

And no more workin out fasted for me.
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Old 10-26-2008, 02:45 PM   #78
Liam Dougherty Springer
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I gotta say I have had the same experience on long term ketonic or CKD however dipping down into that very low carb ratio for a few days every once in a while along with some long fasts seems to keep my body responding well to a zoneish ratio. I think you want to be sure to keep from ever really filling glycogen but beeing aware of your activities when you allow your self to get real low.

Right now I am into my second week of no carb load and about 80g carbs on WO days and 30g carbs on rest which is ` 10 and 5 % kcals. Next saturday it will have been 2 weeks since the last load and I am going to load and go into another two weeks of something like What craig described as the moderate metabolic diet.

This is all during a 7 week strength training cycle and so far going from a Eat to gain whatever diet to what I am doing right now has been making for some excellent results. Well I have not remained lean but during these two weeks I have been leaning while maintaining strength gains and I am hopeing that I will not reach the extent of my capacity to do so this low carb before I go into another high kcal and higher carb period that will allow for increased recovery and mass gain and thus hopefully continued strength gains. We'll see.

I guess this is all just saying. I can't seem to stick to any one plan and I am allways trying to adjust as you yourself admitted to Joe. And MOD always advises to keep the body guessing which is a large influence in some of the descisions I have been makeing.

So I have a feeling while you say you will never stray again there may one day be a thread started by Joe Waguespack with some dietary exploration takeing place.
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Old 10-27-2008, 06:06 AM   #79
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Yeah, I can't deny that. I do get bored easily these days.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:03 PM   #80
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hmmm the moderate metabolic diet is 100g of carbs a day (or less), with higher carbs on the weekends? That seems to be kind of what I'm doing. Frankly I'm getting kind of tired of eating super super low carb. I feel almost TOO obsessive when I can't have a piece of fruit in the morning. Too much isn't good, obviously, but I feel like there's something wrong if I can't have a piece of fruit in the AM. Which means maybe I'll go for the moderate approach, that way I can get my fruit in if I want it.

I had to give up on IF, at least most days. I just wasn't getting enough food in for my workouts, I lost weight (muscle mass) and strength. I still throw a couple in a few days a week (and I have a 12+ hour fast built in every day), so we'll see how it all goes.
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