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Old 01-05-2007, 11:38 AM   #11
Sam Lepore
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Would love to see that Video Ken.....

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Old 01-05-2007, 07:55 PM   #12
Jason C. Brown
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I wrote an article a few years back about combining bands and kettlebells.

You can read it here:
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Old 01-06-2007, 02:59 PM   #13
Ken Urakawa
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Here's a short one:
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Old 01-11-2007, 01:08 PM   #14
Yael Grauer
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I just wanted to ask about using kb's and bands, or about using bands in general... One of the CF trainers (I think Eva) told me that using bands actually slows you down, and I read an article that says it can decrease your power output because the load is at the top of the motion. I know this isn't always the case with bands (e.g. it's the exact opposite for pullups) but was wondering if there's a rule of thumb on when to use bands and when not to.

There are a whole ton of exercises with bands in Ross Enamait's Never Gymless book. A lot of them are punches and such, and my theory was that practicing with bands and then not using bands would increase your speed and make you more explosive, but I guess in practice the opposite is true because you get used to going slow...kind of like people who are pretty slow grapplers (with or without a gi) because they've primarily trained gi.

Thoughts? When would you use bands and when wouldn't you? Or is it just something you do for a little while to get used to the motions and then drop?
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Old 01-11-2007, 01:34 PM   #15
Steve Shafley
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Here's my take on it. I think the statement "bands make you slower" is fundamentally wrong, except, perhaps, on the very surface.

Take the Enamait punching drills with bands. You are slowing down, but you are still, neurologically, punching as hard and as fast as you can. This is going to stimulate the Type II muscle fibers (a's, b's, x's, or whatever) because of the nature of the signals the nervous system is sending. So, you are moving slower, right, but the nervous system is telling your brain and your body that you are moving as fast as you can.

With barbells:

Bands, when used properly, allow you to match resistance to the strength curve of the movement. So, if you are squatting 135 with the barbell, you have 135 at the bottom of the movement, which feels heavier, due to leverage, and 135 at the top of the movement.

When squatting fast with this weight, if you don't decelerate yourself at the top, you are going to jump off the floor. In many cases, this isn't very desirable, unless you are doing it for a reason.

If you are squatting 135, and using bands to that add 60# of resistance at the top, then you are still getting the 135# squat in the bottom (providing the band deloads correctly) and then you are getting a 195# lock out, and the resistance gets harder the more leverage you have. You don't need to decelerate as hard (if at all) so you can keep pushing harder and harder until the lift is finished.

In addition to that, the enhanced eccentric allows for a more powerful concentric, and this tends to be faster.

Louie Simmons, from the Westside Barbell Club, used a Tendo Unit to measure the speed of his lifters speed benches. He found that in every case, adding bands to the speed bench, enhancing the eccentric, made the concentric faster and more powerful with a similar overall load. I believe that someone in John Davies' Renegade Training organization also performed similar experiments with the Micro Muscle Lab.

The whole "bands make you slower" thing is just a wrongminded concept. Dan Wagman of "Pure Power" subscribes to this theory and seems to sometimes make it some kind of crusade to promote this idea, but the anecdotal evidence completely overwhelms the theory.

Bands will slow down the exercise, but they don't make you slower.
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Old 01-11-2007, 05:52 PM   #16
Mike ODonnell
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Well said Steve. Bands have their place in my book.

As for KBs, I think they are fun to add in...but not the staple to my main workout. Swings are probably what I do the most with 80lbs. Also windmills, TGU and one hand over head squats are fun.
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Old 01-12-2007, 05:21 PM   #17
Robb Wolf
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Awesome post Steve. The only thing I'd add is smart S&C includes high speed movements as well as things like bands that encourage "compensatory acceleration" in the words of Dr. Squat. Ross includes generous amounts of this type of work and, perhaps not surprisingly offers some VERY complete and well thought out programming. I'd recommend reading his books closely as he lays out detailed arguments for why he does the programming the way he does and perhaps most importantly, he explains the limitations and or trade-offs in various programming. Ross is a stud coach AND athlete.
"Survival will be neither to the strongest of the species, nor to the most intelligent, but to those most adaptable to change."
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