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Old 10-03-2008, 02:00 PM   #61
Patrick Haskell
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Some excellent thoughts there George and well put. I agree that an introductory program is sorely needed for solo CFers. The relevant information is there, but it's buried deep in the journal or on the boards. After a year and a half, I feel like I'm finally getting myself on a proper program of fundamentals (admittedly after a bunch of strength, conditioning gains and one nagging injury that I did know better when I got it, but which could even more easily strike an uninformed beginner). It's unfortunate that CF is caught between it's mantra of infinite scalability (and the associated marketing appeal of that) and the reality that absent the attention you can get at an affiliate, a separate introductory program would be hugely beneficial for the vast majority of solo CFers starting out. There's definitely a need for it. Perhaps that need will motivate the creation of such a program. I won't hold my breath (I'm sure the rest of the to-do list is pretty long), but eventually, I could see this happen.
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Old 10-04-2008, 04:58 PM   #62
George Mounce
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So in two days, we ended up with 450 pounds of catfish. We even figured out a way, with the proper credentials of course, of easily making $60k a year just fishing catfish. But hey, I have a job.

Much blackened catfish will be on my plate over the course of the next few weeks. The two days of rest were well worth it. Didn't think about work, didn't think about lifting, hell didn't think about much. Drank really good whisky.

Thanks for the support on my observations. They are just that, my observations, and well they would fall on deaf ears, and eyes probably most other places.

Patrick while I agree with you on point about the affiliate thing, I disagree on substance that I've seen.

There is a HUGE disparity on what you will find at an affiliate. I've been to some that are right on point, and some that do nothing but chipper metcon until everyone is dying on the floor every day. This disparity concerns me, because the corporate question of "what is a CrossFit affiliate?" cannot be answered with a standard answer every time. Maybe its the pilot in me where flying has clear standards, just like a squat has clear standards (parallel and lower is clearly defined for each individual). There is no standardization, and the ability for a level I certified person to make an affiliate is scary. They do not even have close to the training required to take on clients and train them effectively. I would require at least level II certification before being able to start an affiliate.

So this makes a bunch of people more prone to injury. To date, the best CrossFit affiliate I've been to is CrossFit SoCal in San Diego. They were all level III certified, had other credentials as well outside of CrossFit and had a gym full of every implement you could ask for in a black box. I am aware other CF gyms have this all as well, but out of 5, only one had this. Heck I think my garage gym has more then some do, which scares me because I put mine together for the grand total now of $2300 with my new rower.

Perhaps this and other discussions will spark ideas (such as a reworked and defined introductory program). My main interest is really more into the Oly lifts now, and I supplement with WODs twice a week. Its obvious I don't need more then that at this point to reach my goals.

Back to finish this week tomorrow morning!
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:46 PM   #63
Derek Weaver
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Good points George.

At my Level 1 Cert. Tony Budding and Dave Castro both made the point that in metcons, couplets and triplets should make up well over 90% of the programming. They were talking about how affiliates get into the "intensity" thing and come up with these insane chippers for like 90% of their work... or they think that Fran isn't enough and they make it 21-15-9 x3 + 100 pushups for time etc.

I'm thinking that eventually the programming on the main page is going to start reflecting some of these things. When you've got a ton of the "old school" athletes from CFHQ who are now at CF Santa Cruz Central starting lots of days with strength and then shorter metcons it should be a strong indicator of what's needed.
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Old 10-04-2008, 09:12 PM   #64
George Mounce
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Good points George.

At my Level 1 Cert. Tony Budding and Dave Castro both made the point that in metcons, couplets and triplets should make up well over 90% of the programming. They were talking about how affiliates get into the "intensity" thing and come up with these insane chippers for like 90% of their work... or they think that Fran isn't enough and they make it 21-15-9 x3 + 100 pushups for time etc.

I'm thinking that eventually the programming on the main page is going to start reflecting some of these things. When you've got a ton of the "old school" athletes from CFHQ who are now at CF Santa Cruz Central starting lots of days with strength and then shorter metcons it should be a strong indicator of what's needed.
I heard the same thing at my cert. For me, the most intense part of my day is Zen meditation, and believe me when done with the utmost of concentration, that alone is more intense than any 1RM deadlift, or the hardest metcon out there. People define intensity too much as "getting your ass kicked". One can put all their intensity into anything they do and be just as wiped out.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:56 AM   #65
Patrick Haskell
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Patrick while I agree with you on point about the affiliate thing, I disagree on substance that I've seen.

There is a HUGE disparity on what you will find at an affiliate. I've been to some that are right on point, and some that do nothing but chipper metcon until everyone is dying on the floor every day. This disparity concerns me, because the corporate question of "what is a CrossFit affiliate?" cannot be answered with a standard answer every time. Maybe its the pilot in me where flying has clear standards, just like a squat has clear standards (parallel and lower is clearly defined for each individual). There is no standardization, and the ability for a level I certified person to make an affiliate is scary. They do not even have close to the training required to take on clients and train them effectively. I would require at least level II certification before being able to start an affiliate.
I do see the disparity in programming at affiliates and have recommended to folks that they consider training themselves in a globo rather than continuing to get worn down by the Chipper of the Day. I'd need to get out to more affiliates to evaluate the range of quality of training, so I'll leave that be. The Level II certification requirement to start an affiliate does makes sense now (actually, I'd like to see other certs required, too), but unfortunately there were hundreds of affiliates founded by Level I trainers before the Level II cert existed. Hard to put the genie back in the bottle at this point. Standardization is tough to come by in an affiliate model, and Coach has assiduously avoided the franchise model and all the complexities that entails. It certainly dilutes the brand, but it doesn't change the way I'll train or the value of CF as a whole to me.
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:27 AM   #66
George Mounce
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I do see the disparity in programming at affiliates and have recommended to folks that they consider training themselves in a globo rather than continuing to get worn down by the Chipper of the Day. I'd need to get out to more affiliates to evaluate the range of quality of training, so I'll leave that be. The Level II certification requirement to start an affiliate does makes sense now (actually, I'd like to see other certs required, too), but unfortunately there were hundreds of affiliates founded by Level I trainers before the Level II cert existed. Hard to put the genie back in the bottle at this point. Standardization is tough to come by in an affiliate model, and Coach has assiduously avoided the franchise model and all the complexities that entails. It certainly dilutes the brand, but it doesn't change the way I'll train or the value of CF as a whole to me.
Here, here! I wore my CF shirt out to dinner last night and the waitress was impressed, and I have no issues letting people know I do CF WODs.
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Old 10-05-2008, 10:27 AM   #67
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BP9

SNB 100x2x3
BS 210x3x5
SNP 135x3x2
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Old 10-05-2008, 01:24 PM   #68
Daniel Olmstead
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This is an interesting conversation, and I hope, George, you don't mind if I butt in with my two cents.

Here's my perspective: I grew up in a fairly cult-like religion. I won't go into the details of that, but suffice to say it was a relatively mild charismatic leader kind of thing. When I became an adult and realized what was really going on, I left, but to this day I continue to believe and follow some of the tenets I learned there. There was much of value behind the bullshit, the trick is just to recognize which is which, and keep what's valuable and good and let go of the rest.

I see much of the same thing with Crossfit. The jokes about it being a cult have a kernel of truth in them, and there are many people who really do elevate Coach Glassman and the Crossfit precepts rather higher than I feel they really deserve or am comfortable with. That said, I find there is much of value in Crossfit, and approached with the proper level of..well..sanity, it can be extremely useful. As long as YOU'RE using IT, and not the other way around.

I'm currently thinking of getting certified to start help training at my local affiliate. I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket, so I'm thinking of combining the CF cert with maybe an RKC or a barbell or something. I'm not that worried about my ability to maintain the perception of Crossfit as a tool, or a means to an end (and not an end itself), and I would strive to keep that perspective in my affiliate.

Last edited by Daniel Olmstead; 10-05-2008 at 01:26 PM. Reason: Grammar.
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:08 PM   #69
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Welcome to the convo Daniel! I do think if you are going to train people it's worth it, unfortunately to get to level 2, you need level 1, and you need to be serious or that $1000 is not worth it at all. The concepts that are taught at the level I are easily found throughout the forum. Heck I think if you have any other nationally accredited cert you should be able to just go right to level II.

I also agree, that too many people (even Coach himself at times) make CF the only answer. Its not, and they also (even Coach) put the money aspect ahead of the fundamentals aspect. CrossFit isn't anything new, I saw doublets and triplets of the CF variety 15 years ago in Men's Health. The packaging is great and the website brings about recognition, but it isn't something new, the model of bringing it to the masses is.

I'll give you an example of a piece of silly BS - the pull-up bar that is endorsed by Glassman that he says is in his house. I'm going to call BS that Glassman does pull-ups in his house. That is the kind of crap that irks me about CF - when it comes down to it, its about the money aspect now for him, not the helping and training of people. While it was at one time a pure thing, those days are gone, and the recent trend I'm seeing on the CF boards and the affiliate blog are unfortunate. Its why I left for the most part over there.
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:44 PM   #70
Kevin Perry
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Welcome to the convo Daniel! I do think if you are going to train people it's worth it, unfortunately to get to level 2, you need level 1, and you need to be serious or that $1000 is not worth it at all. The concepts that are taught at the level I are easily found throughout the forum. Heck I think if you have any other nationally accredited cert you should be able to just go right to level II.

I also agree, that too many people (even Coach himself at times) make CF the only answer. Its not, and they also (even Coach) put the money aspect ahead of the fundamentals aspect. CrossFit isn't anything new, I saw doublets and triplets of the CF variety 15 years ago in Men's Health. The packaging is great and the website brings about recognition, but it isn't something new, the model of bringing it to the masses is.

I'll give you an example of a piece of silly BS - the pull-up bar that is endorsed by Glassman that he says is in his house. I'm going to call BS that Glassman does pull-ups in his house. That is the kind of crap that irks me about CF - when it comes down to it, its about the money aspect now for him, not the helping and training of people. While it was at one time a pure thing, those days are gone, and the recent trend I'm seeing on the CF boards and the affiliate blog are unfortunate. Its why I left for the most part over there.
But does'nt it end up always being about money anyways? I personally have never been to an affiliate. However, I was initially aprart of the group that was opening up the affiliate out here in Greenville but walked away when they were more interested in contract commitments rather than quality training. There current training emphasis is primarily on heavy long drawn out metcons and I have yet to see any strength element in their training.

I like crossfit, but have been finding myself more and more drawn away from it due to their too competetive nature and their elitism atttude towards other styles of training. Right now im not sure what direction to take once I get the training cert from school in the spring. Not sure if it's worth the $1000 right off the bat to get a CF Lvl 1 or if it is even worth it to go into personal training period.

Oh woe me, end rant.

P.s. Where are you stationed? And what do you fly?
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