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Old 09-29-2008, 04:35 PM   #1
Philip Stablein
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Default Critique/Refine my template?

1.5 years CF. 26 and male. 6'0 187lbs. 860 CFT.

Gymnastics is totally awesome...but takes some time and effort to make progress on. Luckily I have some time!

Goals:
  • L-muscle-up
  • complete Coach Sommer's basic ring strength series as prescribed
  • presses to handstand
  • solid pistols

The ring series includes a front and back lever, along with the muscle-up. I've already got the inverted hang and backward roll down.

I can currently do a muscle-up without kipping. I can hold a handstand against the wall for a minute, trying to wean myself from the wall. I can do 1-2 HSPU.
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I am fairly happy with my ring day workout, I've pasted it below, Sets x Reps

Ring day:
5x1 muscle-Ups
3x3 front lever negatives, or holds
3x3 false-grip pull-ups
3x2 r.t.o. dips
3x4 L chins
3x2 bulgarian dips

5x4 pistols 10lbs

My alternate ring day is to simply do Coach Sommer's series with tucked versions of the front and back levers for 10 or so sets. On both days the pistols are simply for practice, as I am very close to doing good pistols.

As for the floor/pbar stuff ...I am stumped. I need work on planches, handstand, L-sits and flexibility.

As for programming, I am planning on doing 2-3 days a week of gymnastics work, with some O-lifting and a wee bit of metcon to round it out.

Questions:

Can I improve on my ring day workouts?

What exercises should I be doing to work toward the press to handstand? What order? Do I need more pulling on the ring day to balance the press stuff?

Can I improve working 2-3 days a week? Such as: Rings Floor Rings in Week 1 and Floor Rings Floor in Week 2?
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:54 PM   #2
Blair Lowe
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Press to HS on Rings or Press to HS on floor? Best thing besides push strength for ring press to HS is hip flexor activation. Sit on the floor in an L and practice lifting your heels up with your hands past your knees or holding it for periods of time. If you can compress better, it will make the press a lot easier. Obviously learn to press to shoulderstand and back to L. From the L, practice pressing as high as you can with straight arms and lowering back to L.

It looks like you have enough pulling in your workouts. Ring workouts are fine for now. Eventually with any program, you will have to change it as you progress.

For your parallette/floor work, check out Roger Harrell's http://www.drillsandskills.com article section for some articles on parallette training.

Basically work tuck planche, Handstand/modified HSPU, and L/V sit work on those days. You could also work a lot of stuff like handstand walking, handstand lower to sitting straddle. Straddle L to straddle stand and back on parallettes.

You could probably add a 4th day if you're up for it. 2 on, 1 off. MTuThF
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:43 AM   #3
Philip Stablein
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Press to handstand on the floor first, for sure.

Looks like hip/hamstring flexibility is going to be the real limiting factor for that.

Thanks for the feedback! I will try 3 days this week, and see how I feel, then add the 4th as tolerated.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:16 AM   #4
Steven Low
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Oh whoops. I was going to respond but I must have closed my window my accident and forgotten about it.

1. I would add some type of rowing exercise. Anything works really -- front lever pullups, inverted rows, C2 rowing (short distance, powerful strokes), bent over rows, pendlay rows, one arm DB rows. Basically, you're lacking scapular retraction with a routine like that and possibly some external rotation. You will have to add stuff in.

2. Overall though, make sure your exercises align with your goals. If they don't.. why do them? If you're fine with muscle ups then just go with increased goals with that; you probably don't need sets of random false grip pullups unless you're just slipping out of false grip a lot. Bulgarian dips are also a "sorta" progression to start working cross.. you didn't list that as one of your goals so why have them?

3a. Blair covered press handstand work.. need the flexible hammies and good core control. Do you have someone who can spot you and crank you up (get the hips up and then the legs). It will really work your flexibility and the movement.

3b. Otherwise, you can do it against the wall. Start in handstand and do slow negatives keeping your back against the wall as long as possible -- should be able to get feet down to the ground eventually while butt is still up in the air.

3c. Work your handstand a lot -- stomach facing wall. Learn how to roll out when you get tired. Focus on making it straight (push stall at shoulders, squeeze abs, push the toes as high as they can go. You want to get it so that your hands are about 3 inches from the wall BUT the only thing touching the wall is your pointed toes. Everything else is 1-3" from the wall in a straight line.

4a. Um yeah, I don't want to draw up a routine for you but if you need ideas on exercises for your goals let us know.

4b. For L-muscle up you would benefit from doing some weighted pullups and weighted dips (on rings preferably). What is going to end up happening is that as you pass through the transition instead of getting the elbows to the armpits you'll have to push them forward to slightly above midthigh because that's where the balance point is. And yes, it's hard.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:42 PM   #5
Philip Stablein
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Awesome, thanks for the response Steven.

I will add tucked front lever pull-ups, probably in place of the false grip pull-ups. Right now my false grip is solidifying. Some days its tight, other days I can't hang on for the negative or the second muscle-up. I expect those will phase out soon (within the week).

I picked Bulgarian dips to have an even number of push and pull exercises on ring day. No cross goal. Regular ring dips are pretty easy, but I guess I can just keep working on the ring turned out ones.

Hammy flexibility is definitely going to be the big thing for the press it seems. I just got myself consistently touching my toes within the last month...

I've got the handstand down pretty well. Can place my hands within 1" of the wall, stomach facing, and kick off lightly, sometimes holding for 5 seconds. Will keep working on solidifying that one. Rolling out, no problem, I made sure to master that!

What sort of weighted pull-ups and dip standards should I be aiming for? I can do a pull-up with 50% bodyweight, but haven't tested the dip in awhile.

Good point about the center of mass on the L-pull!
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:13 AM   #6
Steven Low
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If you want another pushing try rings -- L-sit push to shoulder stand or push up to handstand (use feet on the cables to help yourself if you need to). Doing sets of these that you can control helps build a good range of strength over a pretty good range of motion.

As far as weighted pullups and dips... aim for 75% of bodyweight or higher. I mean, you can always use more strength...


Yeah, if you need anymore ideas just ask. And I would suggest making another routine if you haven't already so you can start (and post if you want critique).
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:07 PM   #7
Philip Stablein
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For the L-sit to shoulder stand, do you set the rings low? I am not sure I am stable enough to do these safely in my current workout environment, so i'll do them on the floor first.

Press to handstand routine:
10 mins handstand work*
press from L to shoulderstand, back to wall
pseudo-planche push-up to shoulder extension (as seen on D&S)
accumulate 60 seconds in frog sit (currently 4x15s)
HSPU negatives
accumulate 60 seconds in L-sit (currently 5x12s)

I don't have the hamstring flexibility to do any of the other movements. I can just barely get a 90 degree pike or straddle No spotter either, so progress may be a bit slow on this one. I guess I will do weighted chins and dips on this day though, for time effectiveness. Whaddya think?
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Last edited by Philip Stablein : 10-02-2008 at 12:54 PM. Reason: forgot handstand work!
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:20 PM   #8
Chadron Edwards
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A few of the guys who are coaching me (thanks!) have already chimed in so I donít have much more to offer, but in terms of working that false grip, I would take your muscle-up to doubles or triples once in a while. For me, coming down from support to a false grip almost always now gives a superior false grip position than I would previously used to start (too much wrist). If you just want some ideas to keep things mixed up, check out my workout blog at www.cpteddie.blogspot.com. Keep us posted on what kinds of stuff you're doing!
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:47 PM   #9
Philip Stablein
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Thanks for the link Chadron. Always looking for more to read.

The plan with the muscle-ups is to increase both strength and endurance. So, 5x1 to start. But then trying for 3x2 (6 total), then to 4x2 (8 total). I figure that if I fail, say on the 3rd set, I can just do singles from there on out. It makes sense on paper...

The blurb about the iron cross bet is totally awesome. I love a good principled bet...maybe that's what I need...
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:55 PM   #10
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Those presses are fine. Mix them in with your pull stuff and you should be a good to go.

Don't forget to do your sequences/routines as well (even make up your own). They can replace exercises if you're doing hard ones multiple times.
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