Eccentric/Deceleration training

[Dave Van Skike]

Originally Posted by Steve Shafley

Maybe it's a minority type opinion, but the ability to safely absorb force, with or without redirecting it is an important quality for contact sports.

Ok. this makes some sense.

[Mike ODonnell]

How about the increased force through acceleration, mass and decelleration is supposed to increase muscle strength/power in the concentric phase of a less intense movement?

Ex) Does eccentrically stopping a 100lb bar and squat from your toes lead to greater gains in a concentric jump using only body weight? (like jumping for sports?) Or do you eccentric load with 100lbs, move to a full (eccentric and concentric) plyo jump with a 20lb vest and then test vertical jumping? Dunno.

I do agree that if you are doing Oly clean and snatch it is build in. So most likely a program of Oly lifts and some plyo work would probably take care of it. I did find the techniques interesting in increasing acceleration down to create a greater force than the inital load which may just be a safer and easier way to do sports training for younger less experience athletes.

[Pierre Auge]

I had fun making the video to respond to steve in another thread so I made this just for the hell of it. I think it relates to this thread a little bit more, I would do it with dumbbells but I don't have any here. I'm itching to try barbell snatches to pistols just for something to do. But again its hard to justify doing it in my apartment.

http://web.mac.com/pierre_auge/iWeb/...4C72C568C.html

Just thought of a cool name for those, Pistol Whips! heh I'm funny...

[Chris Forbis]

Cool stuff Pierre.

Lots of possibilities for expanding upon the plyo aspect of it as well. Maybe try starting the rep from standing on the box, jump down, and bounce off the floor back up to the squat on the box. Could also try one footed jumping (probably need a shorter box though) to a pistol.

[Steve Shafley]

Nice stuff. I am completely one leg deficient. One of my priorities is to correct that.

[Pierre Auge]

Steve,
you could use a Jumping Pistol Pull-Up...

Set a bar up on your squat cage at about chest height. Load it so it doesn't move on you.

Take a snatch grip
Descend into a pistol
Then Burst Up using your arms to assist and keep you under control
You can also make the descent a nice slow concentric grind.

I've done this as a Tabata Interval Workout switching legs each interval, well that was back when I actually worked out. If anyone thinks BTB Tabata's suck they've got another thing coming, do it on one leg.

Did somebody mention something about goofy stuff?

[Robb Wolf]

Pierre-
That is LEGITT! Ido shot me a video of some gymnastics training they did...I'll pester him to post a link to it. I think this type of stuff is pretty well developed in gymnastics circles. Super cool and very fun.

[Pierre Auge]

Yeah it breaks the monotony of even the multitude of CrossFit staples. I'm always intrigued by what Ido has to show and tell. Seems like the guy is at another level all together.

I'm so anxious to get the new gym up and running its not even funny. I really can't figure out what to do with myself these days.

[Jonathan Reik]

Originally Posted by Neal Winkler

For real doggs. If you just do Olympic lifting then you can train acceleration and deceleration in one movement.

Originally Posted by Steve Shafley

The only reason I could think of decoupling the movements is that it's specific for training deceleration and the absorption of force, but, that raises the question of why not do a clean or a snatch? You'd get the concentric action of the posterior chain as well as the deceleration for the same time commitment.

What parts of the Olympic lifts are training deceleration/eccentric contraction? It seems that the vast majority of bar deceleration is accomplished by gravity, rather than any eccentric contraction - dunno, am I missing something here?

[Pierre Auge]

Yes because you are trying to meet the bar wherever it ends up for efficiencies sake. Problem is, it freaken weighs alot, so you have kilos of weight driving you down at 9.8m/s squared which you are trying to stand up with!

And you you are trying to meet the bar while it is still travelling upward, but you aren't strong enough so it drives you back down. Then in the fraction of a second that its driving you down your nervous system realizes this and responds by trying to catch the whip of the bar, which produces a second verticle momentus drive in the weight and you drive up at that instant.

Alot more things are happening than just you eccentrically decelerating the bar.

Oh and gravity wont wont help the bar decelerate at all it will in fact help the bar accelerate and crush you!

Think of it like this if there is no contraction when you meet the bar it means you are a limp noodle and it will hurt you. This is bad!