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Old 10-12-2008, 06:27 AM   #21
Chris H Laing
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Are you doing isokinetic/dynamic pull/push in the same workout as the 30s statics?
Not really sure what you mean by this but the 30 sec statics are not part of a workout. They are just by themselves, probably later in the afternoon a couple hours after a workout.

Steven, any insight on whether or not iron cross training would be worth it for me? I looked at your log on powerathletes and noticed you often had to ice your elbows and do a lot of rotator cuff work. Was this a result of doing cross pulls a lot?
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:14 AM   #22
George Mounce
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Also George, why is this your first time posting if you've been watching the thread, I probably could have used some of your insight.
Because Steven is light-years ahead of me on any knowledge pertaining to gymnastics and the programming of such things. I also need to put in the hooks to support rings in my garage, just haven't got there yet.

For me I just add in one gymnastic movement to my warm-up and practice it. At first it was the handstand until I got it, now its levers. I don't think with my current gaining of weight (trying to get to 187), that I'll see the planche anytime soon. I do practice the progression, as the strength gains are effective either way.

Amazingly enough just doing HSPUs as part of my warm-up then on the last one doing a static hold of a free handstand was enough to develop my handstand.

For pistols, I took some plyo boxes that stack and did pistols down on each side, lowering them as I progressed, until now I can do one without even thinking. Pistols to me are a lot more technique than strength. I had more than enough strength, and none of the technique.

I used this website a lot to think about the technique: http://www.powerathletesmag.com/pages/pistols.htm

I can't answer for Steven, but anyone training at very high levels, no matter the sport, uses a lot of ice. When I played college hockey we were icing knees and jumping in the ice bath daily.
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Old 10-12-2008, 09:16 AM   #23
Steven Low
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Originally Posted by Chris H Laing View Post
Not really sure what you mean by this but the 30 sec statics are not part of a workout. They are just by themselves, probably later in the afternoon a couple hours after a workout.

Steven, any insight on whether or not iron cross training would be worth it for me? I looked at your log on powerathletes and noticed you often had to ice your elbows and do a lot of rotator cuff work. Was this a result of doing cross pulls a lot?
No. Initially (2-3 years ago when training the cross) it was because I lacked horizontal pulling and my routine was mostly pushing dominant. If you're going to do band assisted crosses you should be ok. However, I would advise you to take it slow regardless and listen to your body.

I would suggest adding an external rotator cuff exercise a couple times a week though.

If you want to try it then go for it. Try about 2-3 sessions; you'll learn how taxing it is on your body and if you're ready for it or not. If it's the case where you think its too much then stay away until you've been up a good conditioning level and stronger joints.

----------------------------------

Ice should be used regardless though. Despite studies that sometimes claim differently, ice does help recovery.. significantly.
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Old 10-12-2008, 11:26 AM   #24
Chris H Laing
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If you're going to do band assisted crosses you should be ok.
And if I was going to do cross pullouts on a box?
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Old 10-12-2008, 12:34 PM   #25
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And if I was going to do cross pullouts on a box?
Should be fine as well. Although from what I've found most people [inadvertently] tend to drift backwards which can be a bit riskier on the shoulders and not hit cross position as well.
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Old 10-12-2008, 09:36 PM   #26
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I'm just going to ask this to keep the thread coherent, what external rotator cuff exercises would you recommend, Steven? (I've got some recurring pain from doing swings which I need to shore up.)

For me, Steven's box vs. band comment is spot-on in that I had a very hard time finding the right position using a box. In either case, if you decide to incorporate crosses, make sure to really focus on keeping the arm position correct before decreasing the amount of help. Like many lifting movements, it is very, very tempting to go heavy before you have the technique right, and bad habits are hard to fix.
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Old 10-13-2008, 12:19 AM   #27
Blair Lowe
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I had done all the typical rotator cuff exercises to no avail. However, I found muscle snatching ala Burgener WU ( though my snatch has become very muscle snatch-ish/power snatch like ) and cuban presses was good external rotator work. I've also seen something like a Cuban press that is done from a position like a Bent Over Row/Pendlay row. I think it was on T-Nation by Eric Cressey more than likely.
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:54 AM   #28
Chris H Laing
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Yea I dont think I'm gunna include cross work at the moment...my elbows are just too valuable. Maybe sometime in the future though, as an iron cross is something I really wants to achieve.

On another note, Steven, how did you go about achieving a OAC?

I went to the gym with my friend yesterday, so he could do his tricep extensions and what-not, and I got on the assisted pullup machine, and started playing with OAC. I can do one each arm with 40 lbs of assistance at a bodyweight of about 145, and 10 alternating with 70 lbs of assistance (half my bw).

Is this good in terms of OA pulling strength? If I put OAC's into the schedule we just put together would I be able to achieve it in a decent amount of time?
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:35 AM   #29
Steven Low
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First off, cuban press is an external rotation exercise.. and a fairly typical one at that. It is a similar movement to power snatch (although I would NOT do this unless you are proficient with snatching technique -- bad habits can easily develop).

Secondly, OAC I did negatives 4-5x a week for ~10-15 reps per arm a day (usually something like 5x3 with 7s negatives). Very, very fast gains but gotta be wary of overuse. I can post up my exact workouts if you want to see them. Had some pretty poor programming with everything else except the HSPUs and OAC work. 40 lbs isn't too bad.. but you'll find actually hanging on the bar is much different than having somewhere you can put your feet in an assist. You can probably make this up in about ~6 months or so though.

It will count as a pulling exercise BUT it will help out somewhat with front lever, back lever and cross if you decide to do that later which is nice.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:02 PM   #30
Chris H Laing
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First, I just wanna say that you are amazingly strong Steven. I can't even do a slow controlled negative yet (played around today after my SS workout), while you can do the full OAC, and my biceps and the backs of my shoulders are sorer today than they've been in a while, just from messing around with the assisted OAC's yesterday.

On another note, how did you go about getting your first negative chin? Or did you have the strength from training the cross to do it pretty easily?
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