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Old 10-18-2008, 10:07 AM   #21
Garrett Smith
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Your diet doesn't matter much for the iodine test unless you are taking iodine supplements or eat a lot of sea veggies.
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Old 10-19-2008, 05:10 AM   #22
David Mathews
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Garrett,
If I workout fasted in the early AM would it be best to take the alkaseltzer Gold supp. before working out or PWO? And is it something that might be taken daily or just intermittently? Thanks!
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Old 10-19-2008, 09:50 PM   #23
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I'm a bit confused...maybe it's because I'm a reductionist at heart...

As athletes, can't we just megadose on a multivitamin -- 2-3 Centrum MV's a day, for example, and let our bodies regulate the rest?

It just seems like keeping up with the micronutrients on this level is a bit overkill with how well our bodies can regulate all of this on its own...


2 Centrums a day provides 300 ug of Iodine, for example, and eating a diet where one cooks with iodized salts seems to adequately cover that...

Same goes for any other micronutrient, at least in my neophyte opinion..

In short, whats wrong with taking 2-3 MVs a day and then eating a diet rich in fruits and veggies -- green and deep red/purple?
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:39 AM   #24
Garrett Smith
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Chris,
Your neophyte opinion is noted.

Centrum is made by Wyeth, a pharmaceutical company. There's your first tipoff.

Centrum is pure garbage, the cheapest (and least bioavailable nutrients) stuff they can put in a tablet, plus all sorts of preservatives and binders:
http://www.centrum.com/product_detai...anel=tablet s
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Dibasic Calcium Phosphate, Magnesium Oxide, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C), Ferrous Fumarate, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vit. E). Contains < 2% of: Acacia, Anhydrous Citric Acid, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Beta Carotene, Biotin, Boric Acid, BHT, Calcium Pantothenate, Calcium Stearate, Cholecalciferol (Vit. D), Chromium Picolinate, Corn Starch, Crospovidone, Cupric Sulfate, Cyanocobalamin (Vit. B12), dl-Alpha Tocopherol, FD&C Yellow 6 Aluminum Lake, Folic Acid, Gelatin, Hydrogenated Palm Oil, Hypromellose, Lutein, Lycopene, Maltodextrin, Manganese Sulfate, Medium-Chain Triglycerides, Modified Food Starch, Niacinamide, Nickelous Sulfate, Phytonadione (Vit. K), Polyethylene Glycol, Polyvinyl Alcohol, Potassium Iodide, Pregelatinized Corn Starch, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vit. B6), Riboflavin (Vit. B2), Silicon Dioxide, Sodium Ascorbate, Sodium Benzoate, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Metavanadate, Sodium Molybdate, Sodium Selenate, Sorbic Acid, Stannous Chloride, Sucrose, Talc, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vit. B1), Titanium Dioxide, Tricalcium Phosphate, Vitamin A Acetate (Vit. A), Zinc Oxide. May also contain < 2%: Sodium Aluminum Silicate.
Maybe you never read the label before, as most of my patients haven't either.

Iodized salt is supposedly enough to prevent goiter (outright clinical iodine deficiency). To say that the amount in Centrum(s) plus iodized salt is enough is like saying that taking the RDA of Vitamin C to prevent scurvy plus 10mg more is enough to maintain optimal health. This is not true for "normal" people, much less for athletes.

There is nothing wrong with eating a diet rich in vegetables--I've seen someone almost make themselves diabetic by eating too much fruit.

If you'd like to read more on iodine and what likely optimal amounts for humans are, see http://optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml .

This is all compounded by the fact that all of the food we eat these days is nutrient-deficient compared to earlier centuries, so we're already behind the eight ball there.

If you don't understand the pH regulation issue, you should read more on it. The body regulates the blood pH tightly, but it has to use resources to do that (such as minerals from bone and glutamine from muscle). It's like saying you always keep your checking account balance at the same amount while you are constantly spending money--only by taking money out of your savings can you manage to do this. pH is a huge part of osteoporosis and sarcopenia that cannot be ignored. See here for more info on that http://www.thepaleodiet.com/nutritio...ols/acid.shtml .

I understand your "What's the big deal?" mentality...I used to be there.
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Old 10-20-2008, 06:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Chris,
Your neophyte opinion is noted.
Thanks for taking it into consideration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
I understand your "What's the big deal?" mentality...I used to be there.
[/quote]

Well I wouldn't say that I don't think its a big deal. It's more like it seems way too detailed to focus on exact gram-per-gram dosages of micronutrients...

I feel as if it would be easier to just find the proper dose to megadose and let my body take care of regulating the rest...

In other words, I understand the importance, just I feel that there must be a more direct approach as opposed to supplementing so specifically -- I feel as if i supplemented so specifically for everything, i feel like i would have a medicine chest with thousands of dollars of supplements to last me 3 months.

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Maybe you never read the label before, as most of my patients haven't either.
Wow, I feel dumb for reading the label on everything but that...I guess it just never occurred to me, and I don't know why! heh

With that in mind, what brand would you recommend? Or are you opposed to multi-vitamins. Despite the downsides, i usually tell people i coach nutritionally to supplement with a multi-V 2x a day as I figured it was a cheap way to get them started on the right track when just starting... Would you disagree with this approach?

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Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Iodized salt is supposedly enough to prevent goiter (outright clinical iodine deficiency). To say that the amount in Centrum(s) plus iodized salt is enough is like saying that taking the RDA of Vitamin C to prevent scurvy plus 10mg more is enough to maintain optimal health. This is not true for "normal" people, much less for athletes.
This is another one of those statements that makes me feel like I should have buckets of pills ready to supplement my micronutrients....

I guess the real question is what should I NEED to supplement with a mostly paleo diet, rich in meat, nuts and veggies and moderate in fruits? That's where most people here fall in, I believe..


BTW, my knowledge in acid/base balance and regulation is sorely lacking (my A&P class skipped it, one of the few chapters i never read on my own and I never looked into internet resources, so yeh...) I will definitly read those articles on Iodine and get back to understanding the acid/base balance

Thanks for your help Dr. G.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:41 AM   #26
Darryl Shaw
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Quote:
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I guess the real question is what should I NEED to supplement with a mostly paleo diet, rich in meat, nuts and veggies and moderate in fruits? That's where most people here fall in, I believe..
You shouldn't need to supplement your diet with anything except perhaps fish oil.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:14 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
You shouldn't need to supplement your diet with anything except perhaps fish oil.
That's what I believed all along but I always counted the multi-vitamin supplementation as a cheap "insurance" to make sure that I really did get everything I needed for the day...especially, since as an athlete, I need much more vitamins than a sedentary person...

If my logic is flawed, let me know
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:09 AM   #28
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Chris,
The things I make sure people are getting (absorbing) enough of, especially at the start is:

Methylcobalamin (the active coenzyme form of B12, not cyanocobalamin)

Magnesium (I've had very positive results from taking ~1200mg day lately, even I was amazed)

Probiotics (easily obtained from food by those who are willing)

Iodine (this is a huge deficiency issue, compounded by chlorine/bromine/fluorine that compete for spots in the body)

FYI, at my last naturopathic medical convention, during an open floor session, several NDs specifically stated that exercising without supplementing minerals was really a bad idea, one doc even used the word "suicide" tongue-in-cheek.

Increased toxicity in the environment combined with nutrient-deficient foods has created a world unlike those of our ancestors.
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:34 AM   #29
Chris Salvato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Chris,
The things I make sure people are getting (absorbing) enough of, especially at the start is:

Methylcobalamin (the active coenzyme form of B12, not cyanocobalamin)

Magnesium (I've had very positive results from taking ~1200mg day lately, even I was amazed)

Probiotics (easily obtained from food by those who are willing)

Iodine (this is a huge deficiency issue, compounded by chlorine/bromine/fluorine that compete for spots in the body)

FYI, at my last naturopathic medical convention, during an open floor session, several NDs specifically stated that exercising without supplementing minerals was really a bad idea, one doc even used the word "suicide" tongue-in-cheek.

Increased toxicity in the environment combined with nutrient-deficient foods has created a world unlike those of our ancestors.
Garrett,

Perfect, this was just the response that I was looking for.

I still think that taking these supplements in addition to a better MV would be a good way to start since most new trainee's/normal people's diets are absolutely awful as far as micronutrient content...

I will definitely take the first step by adding these supplements to my routine as well as looking into them further.

I appreciate your advice!
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:05 PM   #30
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Oops, I forgot to add cod liver oil...I prefer it to fish oil, as it contains EPA/DHA and vitamins A & D.
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