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Old 01-02-2007, 01:02 PM   #11
Mike ODonnell
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So is Boyle cutting me a commision check? Ha.

There are so many variables when it comes to workouts and goals....so with that being said, no one workout is probably the "best", but a program that periodizes not only the important aspects to a specific sport but also targets your weaknesses and imbalances to increase overall performance. Mike Boyle may have you doing single legged squats, another person may favor something else, Paul Chek may have you squatting on a swiss ball....in the end of each can make you a better athlete than you are right now, then it works.

Powerlifting programs may only increase hockey performance by 65%, skating all day may have little contribution to increasing your strength in a deadlift, working on balance may increase your ability to stabilize a load and therefore increase work output in both. If you want good stick handling ability, then you need to practice that. There are so many variables in training goals not too mention so many variables with in the game itself. Are you a big defenseman who needs physical strength or are you a power forward who has the speed to get around people.

I'd say stick with a program that is geared for you. If you want more size, then you lift heavy. If you want more speed you do explosive and plyo work. If you want sports improvements then you do movement based training such as 1 legged squats, lunges or slide board work. If you want a program for all then you need to have a monthly plan that targets each area specifically without compromising the effectiveness of each other.

Hope that makes sense. In all, do what you feel is working for you. If your balance sucks, then do more 1 legged strength and stability work. While pullups might be a good metabolic workout and give developed lats, it will only contribute a small fraction to increasing your wrist shot. Hockey is an extremely glycolotic sport, lots of short bursts of speed. Jogging will detrain your sprinting ability on the ice, so shorter more intense distances are better. Quick feet make a better hockey player along with strength.

Remember even the pros workout with different people....some may go to Boyle, Mike Modano goes to Chek, others to Core Performance, some go on their own, I've seen some in my gym doing their own programs.....not all are doing the same things. However I do believe for increase atheltic performance you need a balance of sprint work, basic big lifts, explosive lifts, plyo and agility and balance/injury prevention.
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Old 01-02-2007, 01:28 PM   #12
Pierre Auge
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Steve, Mike, (Robb you've read my opinion on this)
I think thats the idea there though, knowing that basic concept. If were going to use What is Fitness? as our definition of Fitness than we have to understand that this is what the WOD is designed to produce. At the same time if you're an athelete in a specific sport you sure do have to practice that sport to get good at it. Or at least train in a manner that will transfer directly to this.

Thats why I have no problem prescribing CrossFit to a Hockey player, because it wont hurt for them to be capable of anything. Hockey demands a great deal of that. While I have to insist that they train specifically for their sport. Skating drills, handling drills, body contact drills, single leg drills, balance, accuracy drills. At the same time I disagree with the idea that because they are a specialized athlete they require segmented training whether that be segmentation via periodization or segmentation via psychomotor development.

So being there I think its more relative to percentage of effect. What I mean to say is the athletic sport specific skills required will have a higher percentage value in the training as the non specific anciliary training (ie: CrossFit). Might look like 1 or 2 out of every 5 workouts is WOD like and the rest are SST. Like you said its such an individualized issue when you get into athletics that so many variables have to be addressed that it's unwise to say apply it LIKE THIS.

If your sole goal is fitness than I think the Glassman's are on the right track and the WOD is as good as you'll get.

and I keep rambling and rambling and rambling
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:20 PM   #13
Mike ODonnell
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I don't buy into the idea that any ONE workout will be best for every possible application. But that is what makes fitness, everyone has their own view on what does work. Boyle probably doesn't think Chek is right all the time either. It's the flexibility to learn and adapt as neccessary. Even CF is a program that changes their WODs as they learn more about what works for their trainees. (as now you see more heavy lifting days for example)

Just like no one program is best for every possible application, so is everyone and their specific needs/imbalances/weakeness/injuries prevention different. It would make no sense for an athlete that has muscle imbalances to jump right into a full program of complex lifts without trying to fix a foundational problem. Much like an offseason program should be programmed differently than in-season workouts. (for athletes) All full body movement programs that use compound actions and varible free weight resistances will be of benefit for any athlete. So no need to say one program is the best...you take the best exercises for your needs and apply them. Have a CF metcon day, have a 5x5 strength day, have a Boyle sports specific day, have a yoga recovery day....training is taking what works best for you and applying it.
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Old 01-02-2007, 06:17 PM   #14
Pierre Auge
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Mike,
thats exactly my point there is no perfect program, thats where a good coach comes in and says OK IT AIN'T WORKING TIME TO CHANGE, and move on... Nothing more than that, sorry didn't mean to go all preachy on CF that wasn't my intent. I just happen to like the program for what its worth.
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Old 01-02-2007, 06:36 PM   #15
Mike ODonnell
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No worries, I like some of the CF metcons, but I also like Boyle's stuff and other influences in my life from over many many years. For me it's really hard unless I can see the athlete's movement/form, evaluate/test him, talk to him about his goals and then determine the best course of action to take based on what I see and hear. Fitness is all about opinions, and mine is always open to new ideas and implementations if I see it works.
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