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Old 12-17-2008, 05:02 AM   #21
Josh Goguen
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I've been eating Paleo for quite a while and it's worked great for me. I've dropped 20 pounds and lost very little strength. I allow myself one day a week to eat garbage foods, but usually it's Paleo and I've never felt better.
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Old 12-17-2008, 05:56 AM   #22
Darryl Shaw
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Originally Posted by Will Moore View Post
Another defiinition of Paleo that I read has nothing to do with food available during a specific time period: A paleo food is a food that can be eaten raw and does not require a technology to process. For example, you cannot eat grains raw and you cannot eat legumes raw (with the exception of peanuts). Grains and legumes are indigestible and toxic in raw form. Therefore, it doen't take a genius to figure out that these were not staple foods before the concept of soaking/boiling came along. However, this raises some interesting questions; If a processing technology is applied to a food that is toxic and indigestable which renders it "edible", making its nutrients available while destroying the toxins, can that food be considered healthy and nutritious or maybe even superior to some foods traditionally eaten raw? The grain and soybean producers would certainly have us beleive this to be the case. So does the government with its promotion of the food pyramid.
Hunter-gatherers have always processed foods to remove toxins and make them more palatable so the if you can eat it raw it must be paleo test doesn't really work. Australian aborigines for example eat a kind of yam called the cheeky yam that has to be roasted, grated, then soaked for 24 hours before being cooked again in order to make it edible. This seems like a lot of work when other yams are available but the cheeky yam has a higher caloric value than most other yams which makes the extra effort worthwhile.

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In Arnhem Land, north Queensland and the Kimberleys, there are many tropical trees which bear fruits and seeds, such as native figs (Ficus spp.), lilly-pillies (Acmena, Eugenia and Syzygium spp.) and Macadamia nuts. One fruit, the Green Plum (Buchanania obovata) is enormously rich in Vitamin C. True yams (Dioscorea spp.) were important root vegetables, although one of them, Dioscorea bulbifera, is called the 'cheeky yam', because it will make you sick unless it is grated up and thoroughly washed in water before it is used. Another important root was the wild Water-chestnut or Spike-rush, (Eleocharis dulcis).
http://www.anbg.gov.au/anbg/aboriginal-trail.html

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Originally Posted by Will Moore
Man is unique among mammals. We are not the only omnivores, but we have demonstrated an ability to make radical dietary shifts in relatively short time periods. After eons of the same dietary pattern, grain foods suddenly became the staple of our existance...not for all populations, but most of them. It was a change brought on by necessity. Climates changed, the availability of game for meat became more and more scarce. Once it was discovered that grains and legumes could be rendered edible, our very existance revolved around their production. Even so, we tried to obtain our preferred food, meat, whenever the opportunity presented itself. The ability to produce grain created a new opportunity to have meat "on hand" when we wanted it. Animals were domesticated and fed on the grains. Therefore you can say grains were, and still are, the cornerstone of our existance for better or worse.

Now, since we have been living this way for what.....the last 10 - 15 thousand years...is that enough time for our bodies/genes to adapt to, and actually prefer grain based foods to function optimally? Could it be true in some population groups and not in others?
It's true that man is unique among mammals but we are still primates with bodies evolved and adapted to the conditions we experienced in Africa over many millions of years and there is no evidence to suggest that we have experienced any significant genetic adaptations to our modern grain/dairy based diet, indeed there is a growing body of evidence to suggest that grains and dairy are the cause of numerous health problems.

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ABSTRACT:
There is growing awareness that the profound changes in the environment (eg, in diet and other lifestyle conditions) that began with the introduction of agriculture and animal husbandry 10000 y ago occurred too recently on an evolutionary time scale for the human genome to adjust. In conjunction with this discordance between our ancient, genetically determined biology and the nutritional, cultural, and activity patterns of contemporary Western populations, many of the so-called diseases of civilization have emerged. In particular, food staples and food-processing procedures introduced during the Neolithic and Industrial Periods have fundamentally altered 7 crucial nutritional characteristics of ancestral hominin diets: 1) glycemic load, 2) fatty acid composition, 3) macronutrient composition, 4) micronutrient density, 5) acid-base balance, 6) sodium-potassium ratio, and 7) fiber content. The evolutionary collision of our ancient genome with the nutritional qualities of recently introduced foods may underlie many of the chronic diseases of Western civilization.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/2/341

Last edited by Darryl Shaw : 12-17-2008 at 06:52 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-17-2008, 06:39 AM   #23
George Mounce
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Paleo for almost 2 years now (result = 30 pounds of fat loss, muscle gain, better all around health). I tried about 1/4 cup of rice the other night with some sashimi. I seriously thought I was going to die for the next 12 hours it completely destroyed my bowels.

Ya....not worth it. I'll stick with Paleo.
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:10 AM   #24
Derek Simonds
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I am trying to put on weight right now and have opened my diet way up compared to normal. Including breads, rice and oatmeal. Still not a ton but significantly more than my fairly paleo diet for the last two years. The result, constantly runny nose and 1 sinus infection. I am going back to a stricter paleo and increasing the fat about 10 times starting this week.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:33 AM   #25
Dave Ogilbee
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If you eating more carbs previously resulted in better performance and low bodyfat, stick with it--you are your own best experiment. My wife is mostly Irish, she seems to do better on more carbs than I do as well (I'm mostly Scandinavian heritage).
My Scandi-brother!

Anyway, regarding the macro ratios, I've been on somewhat of a mission to figure out what works best for me. When it comes to my diet, I would say I am a bit more meticulus than most (I've got an excel spreadsheet system tracking cal/prot./cab/fat numbers dating back about a year and a half). I've tried a number of methods of dieting to keep bodyweight under control but try and put on lean mass (what guy isn't looking for this, I know). Ever since I started trying to eat more "natural" foods I've noticed feeling a whole lot better than I used to. I would love to go 100% paleo but i've got a serious addiction to oatmeal...like, stable, every morning ritual of eating the stuff. I'd like to put on some mass, and am not afraid to add a bit of bodyfat to do it, but i'm in the middle of trying to see how my body reacts to different eating methods (higher fat % vs. lower carb %, vice versa).
In all, I think the whole diet thing is just like Garrett said; its dependant upon the person. Some do well with higher carbs while others don't. I'd just like to try to find that happy median where I make the gains that I'm looking for while eating foods that aren't very processed and make me feel good.
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:09 AM   #26
Darryl Shaw
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Originally Posted by Dave Ogilbee View Post
My Scandi-brother!

Anyway, regarding the macro ratios, I've been on somewhat of a mission to figure out what works best for me. When it comes to my diet, I would say I am a bit more meticulus than most (I've got an excel spreadsheet system tracking cal/prot./cab/fat numbers dating back about a year and a half). I've tried a number of methods of dieting to keep bodyweight under control but try and put on lean mass (what guy isn't looking for this, I know). Ever since I started trying to eat more "natural" foods I've noticed feeling a whole lot better than I used to. I would love to go 100% paleo but i've got a serious addiction to oatmeal...like, stable, every morning ritual of eating the stuff. I'd like to put on some mass, and am not afraid to add a bit of bodyfat to do it, but i'm in the middle of trying to see how my body reacts to different eating methods (higher fat % vs. lower carb %, vice versa).
In all, I think the whole diet thing is just like Garrett said; its dependant upon the person. Some do well with higher carbs while others don't. I'd just like to try to find that happy median where I make the gains that I'm looking for while eating foods that aren't very processed and make me feel good.
Dave,

Re. macronutrient ratios: When you're eating a natural foods/paleo diet you might find it easier if you work out what ratio of plant to animal foods (P:A) suits you (measured by volume not weight) then as long as your diet is varied enough the macro's should take care of themselves.
In my case for example I seem to do best with a P:A ratio of about 4:1 but I'm a wiry little guy who needs plenty of carbs to avoid losing weight. If you're bigger or you're trying to gain weight though you might find that you do better with a P:A ratio of 3:1 or even 2:1 but once you've figured out what works for you weight control is simply a matter of increasing/decreasing portion sizes or number of meals per day.

As for the oatmeal; 90% paleo is close enogh so don't sweat the small stuff.
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:40 AM   #27
Daniel Labuz
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Originally Posted by Derek Simonds View Post
I am trying to put on weight right now and have opened my diet way up compared to normal. Including breads, rice and oatmeal. Still not a ton but significantly more than my fairly paleo diet for the last two years. The result, constantly runny nose and 1 sinus infection. I am going back to a stricter paleo and increasing the fat about 10 times starting this week.
Sounds like me, I get terrible runny nose with grains and large amounts of dairy
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:11 AM   #28
Dave Ogilbee
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Dave,

Re. macronutrient ratios: When you're eating a natural foods/paleo diet you might find it easier if you work out what ratio of plant to animal foods (P:A) suits you (measured by volume not weight) then as long as your diet is varied enough the macro's should take care of themselves.
In my case for example I seem to do best with a P:A ratio of about 4:1 but I'm a wiry little guy who needs plenty of carbs to avoid losing weight. If you're bigger or you're trying to gain weight though you might find that you do better with a P:A ratio of 3:1 or even 2:1 but once you've figured out what works for you weight control is simply a matter of increasing/decreasing portion sizes or number of meals per day.

As for the oatmeal; 90% paleo is close enogh so don't sweat the small stuff.
Thanks for the response Darryl, I'll give your advice a shot. I'm always game for trying something new and seeing how I feel. Right now i've got a PA ratio favoring the animal side, looking at it from a protein/carbohydrate perspective. By P:A do you mean portion/serving sizes or prot./carb. count?
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Old 12-25-2008, 06:35 AM   #29
Bo Bolund
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Too low in carbs is known to imped performance.
Paleo diets do not necessarily mean low carb diet, but usuallly it lowers ones intake compared to regular western diets with grain and sugar.
Some do well on high carb low fat diet and are triggered to eat more if they try to exclude carbs. Others stimulate their appetite by eating carbs. Human physiologic functioning is not a one way street allthough we share the same metabolites. In many ways we are different, which in the end improves homo sapiens survival.
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Old 12-27-2008, 04:32 AM   #30
Darryl Shaw
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Originally Posted by Dave Ogilbee View Post
Thanks for the response Darryl, I'll give your advice a shot. I'm always game for trying something new and seeing how I feel. Right now i've got a PA ratio favoring the animal side, looking at it from a protein/carbohydrate perspective. By P:A do you mean portion/serving sizes or prot./carb. count?
Apologies for the slow reply but I've been visiting my parents over Christmas and they aren't online.

Okay my approach to the P:A ratio is actually very simple; you just forget all about macronutrient ratios and look at the volume of food on your plate. In my case for example I know from experience that as long as there's roughly four times as much plant food on my plate as animal foods my macros will avarage themselves out over the course of a day/week/month/year as long as my diet is varied enough and I'm eating enough food to get through the day.
The reason this approach to eating paleo works is because after 20+ million years as opportunistic omnivorous gatherer-scavengers and much later hunter-gatherers our bodies are able to function remarkably efficiently on a wide range of macronutient intakes and as long as our calorie intake is adequate homeostasis will take care of all that complicated biochemistry stuff.
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