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Old 12-23-2008, 07:24 AM   #21
Darryl Shaw
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Originally Posted by Will Moore
I would like to get feedback from a living example of someone who practices what he preaches about Paleo, is athletic, and thrives on the diet. I want to know what the formula for success is because I really want to eat that way if I could only make it work.
I've been eating paleo for twenty years now and I'd describe myself as being athletic and thriving on this diet and in my experience there is no formula for success. You seem to have the idea that the paleo diet is about absolutes with it having to be either high carb or high fat and if you hit exactly the right macronutrient ratio everything will fall into place and you'll be transformed into some kind of super athlete. The truth is that there are no predetermined macronutrient ratios with this diet and that's the beauty of it; all you need to do apart from avoiding dairy and limiting consumption of grains and legumes is eat a varied diet of natural foods and as long as you're eating enough Kcals to get through the day the macros take care of themselves.
If I've learned anything about this diet over the past twenty years it's to keep things simple and not to over analyze things because life really is too short to worry about trivial stuff so it's okay to enjoy the occasional beer or a slice of pizza because as long as they're not a regular part your diet they won't do you any real harm.
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Old 12-23-2008, 07:59 AM   #22
Mike ODonnell
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Originally Posted by Will Moore View Post
It's not about agreement or disagreement....a forum is a place for an exchange of ideas or debate. Is that now this this forum works? Or is it "agree with the moderators who regularly post here or get out"....that's what it sounds like to me.
Hell I don't even agree with half the stuff that comes out of my mouth....but let's just keep the debate "non-personal"....as we are a community of people with various opinions who can debate without attacking. I think I am no better than the next and just want to find my own happiness in what I do. I would only hope you can do the same.

oh yeah...happy holidays.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:14 AM   #23
Will Moore
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Ok, I apologize....maybe I took Dr. G's comments the wrong way and went on the defensive. Look, when I said all the things I said about a high-carb diet, heavy on grain products working for me, I'm not trying to defend it as being a superior dietary stategy. In fact, if you look back over my earlier posts, you will see that I stated that I prefer the foods I was eating on a Paleo diet. Its the idea that I'm eating real food that nature provides....nothing processed. And I understand what everyone seems to suggest: why not a high-carb Paleo diet? Well, mostly because I think that would result in significant fat gain, unless I were very careful and counted every calorie. Here's why - If you eat Paleo style it means eating siginificant amount of meat, which usually equates to significant amounts of fat. If you combine that with a lot of carbs, regardless of the source, your body will take the easiest route and burn the carbs...the fat will not get burned, it will end up as body fat. That has been my experience and its why (when I'm eating Paleo) that I consume as little carbs as I can get away with. By the same token, when I'm eating a high-carb diet, I keep the fats at a bare minimum. When I keep the fats super low, the diet is self-regulating because the food is bulky and has lots of fiber...I get full before I overeat on calories.

That said, I don't want to fight anyone here about what I eat or what you eat. I just want to engage in some discussion about apparent genetic differences among cultures and individuals, and their ability or inability to thrive on different diets. I want to know what your opinions, theories, and ideas are. For example, there are groups of Mediterranian people who have been pounding down pasta since the day they were born, yet have some of the highest life expectancies on the planet. Is it because they are genetically better suited for this type of food? Or would they in fact live longer and be healthier if they eliminated the grain/flour products from their diets? Could it be their extensive use of Olive oil or fish somehow makes up for the bad things in their diet? Or what about Asian cultures? I've read many posts on many different low-carb and Paleo forums where Campbell is repeatedly flamed on his research for The China Study. Could he in fact be correct about his theories regarding the superiorty of a low protein, high carbohydrate diet....but ONLY if it is applied to people of Asian descent? Or is he just way off base altogether? Also, how about all those studies showing NO significant physical performance losses once one has become adapted to a low-carbohydrate diet? Do any of you believe this? As for me, I never get adapted, just get worse over time. These are the things that I ponder.

And Garret, I'm sorry I was an $%*!!@....please accept my apology.
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:55 PM   #24
Steven Low
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Nope, I said that because you were attacking other people. But it sounds like you already realized this. So we have no problem now.


Regarding high carbs.

There's literally probably hundreds if not thousands of factors in our genetics that affect our response to different nutrition. For example, those of us that don't downregulate insulin receptors normally or produce excess insulin receptors may get no insulin resistance regardless of if they eat 90% carbs and 10% protein all day everyday for years. Downregulation is just one of the multiple pathways our body has in response to nutrition.

Point being EVERYONE has different genetics. And they all response differently. As it seems, a lot of asian people can eat rice and a lot of carbs all day and stay skinny myself included because we've had agriculture around longer than most of the world. Is there certain adaptations in our genetics that allow us to do this? Probably. Likewise, most asians cannot tolerate dairy while almost 90%+ of the european population can. Coincidence? No, more likely that Europeans have had to adapt to animal milk during the winter months while not a lot of asians had the need to investigate milk with their diet.

Food allergies, tolerance to carbs, tolerance to fats, etc. are all along the SAME spectrum of how each of our individual bodies responds different to different things we ingest. Basically, what everyone has been saying here is find out what works for you. None of us know our exact genetics and we haven't even figured out what most of the genes do or even discovered all of the genes or innerworkings of the cells. Much less have we discovered how a lot of these would interact macroscopically with what we eat. THIS is why experimenting for the INDIVIDUAL is the answer.

If you want to keep asking why certain populations can do certain things other people can't then you'll have to do your own research on genetics as they apply to nutrition except with like food allergies (which are more immunological in nature and more researched). Fact of the matter is most of us just don't know and it's not like we don't want to answer your questions... just that no one on the planet can answer them. Hence, why most of us experiment with our bodies.
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Last edited by Steven Low; 12-23-2008 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:07 PM   #25
Ben Wheeler
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You should try to talk to someone with an endurance background to see whether any of them find they can thrive on a Paleo diet while still maintaining good energy levels. Brian Mackenzie from Crossfit Endurance would be a great guy to ask. Goodluck!
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:39 AM   #26
Ben Fury
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Originally Posted by Ben Wheeler View Post

You should try to talk to someone with an endurance background to see whether any of them find they can thrive on a Paleo diet while still maintaining good energy levels. Brian Mackenzie from Crossfit Endurance would be a great guy to ask. Goodluck!
Charles Washington runs half marathons on a ZERO carb diet.
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Old 12-24-2008, 03:31 AM   #27
Allen Yeh
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Originally Posted by Ben Fury View Post
Charles Washington runs half marathons on a ZERO carb diet.
His page is interesting to say the least.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:29 AM   #28
Dave Van Skike
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Originally Posted by Ben Wheeler View Post

You should try to talk to someone with an endurance background to see whether any of them find they can thrive on a Paleo diet while still maintaining good energy levels. Brian Mackenzie from Crossfit Endurance would be a great guy to ask. Goodluck!
an interesting question would be if there are any successful (on any level..local regional or otherwise) endurance athletes that use low to no carb approaches.

I know of only one national level track racer who used the zone diet to tank one cycling season in the quest of uber leanness but none that have used a "paleo" approach with moderated (but sensible) levels of carbs from non grain sources.
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:01 PM   #29
Garrett Smith
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Interesting article on endurance nutrition.
The bad news is that carbo-loading may not be all it's cracked up to be. Timothy Noakes and colleagues in Australia found that cyclists riding a 100-kilometer course produced similar times, and power outputs, after a carbo-loading spree, and after eating mock carbs (we don't even want to think what they might be). The benefits of carbo-loading, the authors wrote, may grow from the placebo effect.
There is some evidence backing the claim. For example, in a South African carbo-loading trial, bikers who had eaten a high-fat (more than 65 percent of calories from fat) diet were faster on a 100-kilometer ride (see "High-Fat Diet Versus Habitual..." in the bibliography). And a Swiss study found a 21 percent increase in running endurance among male runners who ate a diet containing 40 percent of calories from fat, compared to 18 percent (see "Muscle Structure ..." in the bibliography). For comparison, Americans average 30 percent to 40 percent of calories from fat.

In a study funded by a candy company (see "The Effects of Varying..." in the bibliography), Horvath compared diets containing 16 percent, 31 percent and 44 percent fat. The average runner's endurance was 14 percent greater on the medium- and high-fat diets, he reported.
The mock carb & placebo statement is very interesting.
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:40 PM   #30
Ben Wheeler
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Yeah it would be interesting to find out about the endurance athletes. My guess is that there are some who can thrive on a Paleo approach. Like I said Brian Mackenzie is a good guy to look at, he just hosted a Nutrition seminar with Robb Wolf I am pretty sure. And he runs 100 mile races, thats just about as endurance as it gets.
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