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Old 12-24-2008, 08:23 AM   #11
Ben Fury
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Not sure it is confirmation bias, but your last name is amazing Ben regardless.
Thanks! That's the third spelling since the family came to America from Slovakia. First two spellings were hilariously badly pronounced by the locals. So my Grandpa finally just Americanized it to Fury and had done with it. People STILL sometimes screw up and pronounce it Furry. <sigh> Illitieracy is rampant.
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Old 12-24-2008, 02:29 PM   #12
Craig Loizides
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Here's the Weston Price take on Vitamin A:

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...ina-osteo.html

Basically it says that vitamin A toxicity is primarily a vitamin D deficiency and that beta-carotene is neither adequate or fully safe.

I'm not sure who's right but from what I've read so far the WAP argument is more convincing.

Plus it's a lot easier for me to believe that vitamin A, D, E, and K and magnesium, calcium and phosphorous need to be in proper balance than it is for me to believe that 6 ounces of liver a week is toxic.

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Old 12-24-2008, 04:28 PM   #13
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I think the answer is somewhere in the middle on the A issue. Both sides are obviously cherrypicking studies that back their side.

There's only one liver per animal, so ODing on liver in past times (except with certain animals) seems less likely assuming the liver was equally divided among a group of people.

I have no idea how much CLO comes from one cod liver, but I bet it isn't much.
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:36 PM   #14
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I hate playing "pick an expert."

Either the WAP people as represented by Chris Masterjohn's long review are right...
or...
John J. Cannell, MD; Reinhold Vieth, MS, PhD; Walter Willett, MD, DrPH; Michael Zasloff, MD, PhD; John N. Hathcock, MSc, PhD; John H. White, PhD; Sherry A. Tanumihardjo, MSc, PhD; D. Enette Larson-Meyer, PhD; Heike A. Bischoff-Ferrari, MD, MPH; Christel J. Lamberg-Allardt, PhD; Joan M. Lappe, PhD, RN; Anthony W. Norman, PhD; Armin Zittermann, PhD; Susan J. Whiting, MSc, PhD; William B. Grant, PhD; Bruce W. Hollis, PhD; and Edward Giovannucci, MD know what they're talking about and maybe cod liver oil has too much preformed Vitamin A retinols.

HELP!!!

We've got an amateur trying to take care of their health here. Let me check... yes, pulse and respiration are strong, but he looks bad...
IS THERE A CHEMIST IN THE HOUSE?!?!!!
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Old 12-25-2008, 05:53 AM   #15
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I've tried a cod liver oil based vitamin d supplement. It made me really sick. At first I thought it was the vitamin d but when I switched to a synthetic vitamin d3 I felt much better. Natural may no always be the best. I've read in the papers lately that many fish oil brands contain rancid oil.
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Old 12-26-2008, 03:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Fury View Post
I hate playing "pick an expert."

Either the WAP people as represented by Chris Masterjohn's long review are right...
or...
John J. Cannell, MD; Reinhold Vieth, MS, PhD; Walter Willett, MD, DrPH; Michael Zasloff, MD, PhD; John N. Hathcock, MSc, PhD; John H. White, PhD; Sherry A. Tanumihardjo, MSc, PhD; D. Enette Larson-Meyer, PhD; Heike A. Bischoff-Ferrari, MD, MPH; Christel J. Lamberg-Allardt, PhD; Joan M. Lappe, PhD, RN; Anthony W. Norman, PhD; Armin Zittermann, PhD; Susan J. Whiting, MSc, PhD; William B. Grant, PhD; Bruce W. Hollis, PhD; and Edward Giovannucci, MD know what they're talking about and maybe cod liver oil has too much preformed Vitamin A retinols.

HELP!!!

We've got an amateur trying to take care of their health here. Let me check... yes, pulse and respiration are strong, but he looks bad...
IS THERE A CHEMIST IN THE HOUSE?!?!!!
A list of studies would be more useful than a list of PhDs. Some doctors have said that too much vitamin A is bad. WAP has studies showing that if vitamin D is high enough the level of vitamin A doesn't matter. So, are there any studies showing vitamin A causing problems with sufficient vitamin D? And at what level of vitamin A if vitamin D is at 5000-10000 IU per day? The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. I'll avoid polar bear liver to be safe.
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Loizides View Post
A list of studies would be more useful than a list of PhDs. Some doctors have said that too much vitamin A is bad. WAP has studies showing that if vitamin D is high enough the level of vitamin A doesn't matter. So, are there any studies showing vitamin A causing problems with sufficient vitamin D? And at what level of vitamin A if vitamin D is at 5000-10000 IU per day? The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. I'll avoid polar bear liver to be safe.
I believe Dr. Mercola is in agreement that if Vitamin D levels are high enough, the Vitamin A can be counteracted, even at high levels. What he and others are arguing is that we get enough Vitamin A from food and do not get enough Vitamin D. So why compound a problem?
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:14 PM   #18
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Donald, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Dr. G ... are you still taking any dessicated liver? I was surprised to see that they don't list any vitamin A in the nutritional info. Is it destroyed in the processing? Or are they just not listing it?
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:10 AM   #19
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Cod Liver Oil - Nutrition Info

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Teaspoon (5 mL)
Vitamin A 4615 International Unit 92%
Vitamin D 462 International Unit 116%
EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) 554 Milligrams *
DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) 369 Milligrams *
*Daily value not established.

Vitamin A is fat soluble. Some folks swig this stuff like it's a cordial. How many swigs a day till it's toxic? If you're trying to get the 4-6000 IU of D per day that some experts are recommending, you'll get around 1000% of your Vitamin A if you're trying to get all that D from Cod Liver Oil.

WAP thinks this is safe? OK, it's a free country, but I'm not trying that experiment with my body.
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Old 12-28-2008, 06:06 AM   #20
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Donald,
I'm not currently taking any liver, I'm still having several people use it though.

As to why vitamin A isn't on the nutrition facts, I have no idea. I know that many types of dessicated liver, particularly the kind in tablet form, is defatted. That would likely take away the vitamin A. I have spoken to the Leviticus11.com folks over email about their product, they say it is all the original parts (minus the water, obviously).
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