A train wreck

[James Evans]

Cheers Steve,

I'll have a dabble with that.

[Steve Shafley]

What I was getting at is that the hamstrings need to be stronger to help stabilize the knee. For those with tricky knees, they need to consider both of the hamstring actions...the hip extension (i.e RDL, OLs, etc) and the knee flexion for optimal knee function.

I think the wrong kind of leg curl machine is worse than doing anything, though, so I am right with you on that part.

[James Evans]

I accept that point regarding ham strength and over the last couple of years have done a lot more work on the deadlift variations. This can be a real problem for cyclists who become quad dominant and ham tight.

Of course the dl work is hip centric and not flexion based. The RDL, for example, obviously doesn't hit the hams in the same way.

Am I right in thinking that working on the hams in this way is a 'movement not found in nature'? Ok, I'm fooling around a little with that but I've always thought that the leg curl machine wasn't really replicated by anything else. You can use a physio ball. You can drag a plate across the floor with your heel. You can use a band. But when do we use the hams like that naturally?

Obviously the big lifts mirror life to a degree (I'm not going to call them functional). Even the maligned bicep curl is a movement we mostly do every day. Perhaps I'm just being obtuse but this has puzzled me for quite a few years and I've only just thought to ask someone.

[Steve Shafley]

I don't see why plate dragging with you heel, etc, won't do the trick.

That's an interesting point regarding the hamstrings, however, the muscle and the motion is there. I think during a sprint, the hamstring is engaged strongly and as both a knee flexor and hip extensor.

[James Evans]

The plate drag is good.

That's a fair point about the sprints. I think I read something by Mike Boyle on the subject. There has always been a fixation on the hamstring being a flexor or an extensor when in fact they do both. Hence they get sore when you squat.

Trouble with having two arts degrees not science degrees, read a lot, don't understand or remember it all.

I gave some thought to the antagonistic relationship of the biceps and triceps recently when I notice soreness in my triceps from pullups. Didn't give it too much thought though. That could get dangerous.

[Ron Nelson]

Here's a link to some of the traction work Steve referred to:
http://jumpstretch.com/fitroutine.php

Dave Tate had an article, either on EFTS or T-Nation, about the traction work he did with his shoulders. Good advice if you suffer in that area as I often do (old dislocation injury tore the hell out of my right shoulder).