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Old 01-23-2009, 08:20 AM   #11
Gant Grimes
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Epidemiology is not emotional. Vaccinations have made this nation healthier. The numbers are clear and consistent. The controversy is stirred by the desperate.
Agree. Sometimes trying to purify your life to the nth degree defeats the purpose of better living.
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:04 AM   #12
Derek Maffett
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Originally Posted by Stephen Brown View Post
Epidemiology is not emotional. Vaccinations have made this nation healthier. The numbers are clear and consistent. The controversy is stirred by the desperate.
I won't deny that vaccines can be useful, but you need to weigh the rewards and dangers. Doctors, however, can be difficult to trust when they fight tooth and nail to show that vaccinations have absolutely, positively, nothing to do with autism and other disorders, despite the fact that the correlation is brutally obvious in many cases.

I just read about a case where a girl of about six years was given the MMR vaccine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...d-herself.html (Lousy site, but it gives a mainstream news example of how messed up that country is. No offense intended to the English. Unless there are no English people around, in which case you can revert the sentence to it's original Irish translation).

It would seem that the doctors are eager to not even consider that the MMR vaccine could have had anything to do with anything. They say there is no reason to believe that, but a sudden and catastrophic decline in health starting only two days after a significant event is more than enough reason to suspect that event. But if doctors are unwilling to consider such a thing and instead just keep shoving the "it's safe" line in our faces, how are we supposed to trust them, even if they may be right on that occasion?
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:33 PM   #13
Brandon Oto
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I did this for the CF boards. It's only on MMR.

http://degreesofclarity.com/writing/mmr/
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:05 PM   #14
Derek Maffett
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I did this for the CF boards.
Ah, yes. That was a fun discussion, wasn't it?
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:01 AM   #15
Brandon Oto
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Yes. Yes it was.
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Old 02-09-2009, 04:40 PM   #16
John Alston
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Default MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield fixed data on autism

The doctor who sparked the scare over the safety of the MMR vaccine for children changed and misreported results in his research, creating the appearance of a possible link with autism, a Sunday Times investigation has found.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle5683671.ece


Last week official figures showed that 1,348 confirmed cases of measles in England and Wales were reported last year, compared with 56 in 1998. Two children have died of the disease.
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Old 02-09-2009, 08:23 PM   #17
Garrett Smith
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How could anyone doubt the vaccine industry when things like this happen?
http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/0023
BTW, the AAPS (who put up this article) are a group of MDs...
Quote:
French judges investigate vaccine manufacturer for manslaughter
March 19th, 2008

In what was called a “thunderclap in the vaccine industry,” French authorities have opened a formal investigation concerning a hepatitis B vaccination campaign by GlaxoSmithKline and Sanofi Pasteur in the 1990s. It is alleged that the companies failed to fully disclose neurologic side effects. Another investigation opened by Judge Marie-Odile Bertella-Geffroy concerns the death (“manslaughter”) of a 28-year-old woman from multiple sclerosis, allegedly connected to the vaccine (Le Figaro 1/31/08).

From 1994 to 1998, almost two-thirds of the French population and almost all newborn babies were vaccinated against hepatitis B, but the campaign was temporarily suspended because of concerns about side effects.

Some 30 plaintiffs, including the families of five patients who died after the vaccination, have launched civil actions (Reuters 1/1/08).

A British case-controlled analysis showed an odds ratio of 3.1 (95% CI 1.5-6.3) for first symptoms of multiple sclerosis in recipients of recombinant hepatitis B vaccine compared to controls. Two previous French studies had shown a RR of about 1.5. Other studies showed a nonsignificant increase or null findings, especially when date of diagnosis rather than date of first symptoms was used (Neurology 2004;63:838-842).

According to attorney Clifford Miller, “British doctors administering hepatitis B vaccine to infants could face criminal prosecution if fully informed consent is not obtained. Civil prosecution for damages is possible over 21 years later if the injured survive as adults” (UK Press Association Newswire/Romeike, September 2005).

The hepatitis B vaccine has been considered “one of the safest vaccines ever produced” (Neurology, op. cit.). On the other hand, French medical expert Marc Girard has said that “for a preventive measure, hepatitis B is remarkable for the frequency, variety and severity of complications from its use” (Romeike, op.cit.)
Or what about the groups lobbying for mandatory vaccination and denying both parents and children the rights to the "sanctity of their own blood"?
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DOCTORS’ GROUP VOTES TO OPPOSE VACCINE MANDATES

A leading national physician organization is calling for a moratorium on all government mandated vaccines and has passed a resolution to that end at their annual meeting.

Members of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) voted this week at their 57th Annual Meeting in St. Louis to pass a resolution calling for an end to mandatory childhood vaccines. The resolution passed without a single "no" vote. (Resolution and mandatory vaccine fact sheet posted at www.aapsonline.org)

"Our children face the possibility of death or serious long-term adverse effects from mandated vaccines that aren’t necessary or that have very limited benefits," said Jane M. Orient, MD, AAPS Executive Director.

"This is not a vote against vaccines," said Dr. Orient. "This resolution only attempts to halt blanket vaccine mandates by government agencies and school districts that give no consideration for the rights of the parents or the individual medical condition of the child."

Forty-two states have mandatory vaccine policies, and many children are required to have 22 shots before first grade. On top of that, as a condition for school attendance, many school districts require vaccination for diseases such as hepatitis B -- primarily an adult disease, usually spread by multiple sex partners, drug abuse or an occupation with exposure to blood.

And yet, children under the age of 14 are three times more likely to suffer adverse effects -- including death -- following the hepatitis b vaccine than to catch the disease itself.

Just last week, students in Utica, NY were sent home from school, and told they could not return until they had been forced to receive hep B vaccinations. Further, parents were threatened by Child Protective Services with possible seizure of their children based on "education neglect."

"It’s obscene to threaten to seize a child just because his parents refuse medical treatment that is obviously unnecessary and perhaps even dangerous," said Dr. Orient. "AAPS believes that parents, with the advice of their doctors, should make decisions about their children’s medical care -- not government bureaucrats. This Resolution affirms that position."

(Note: AAPS is a professional association of physicians dedicated since 1943 to the sanctity of the patient-physician relationship.)
If vaccines actually worked, then the *vaccinated* have NOTHING to fear from those who are *unvaccinated*. What a farce.
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:17 PM   #18
Ari Kestler
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If vaccines actually worked, then the *vaccinated* have NOTHING to fear from those who are *unvaccinated*. What a farce.
True in vacuum. Yes, if we stop vaccinating against measles it's no sweat off my back since I'm vaccinated. However, it would be a public health nightmare and is something everyone should fear. Every year the # of measles cases climbs because of vaccine fear, when in reality, there is no reason any child should have to suffer measles and the potential complications.

Don't even get me started on the people out there (and on this board) who use the example of themselves (and their children) of being perfectly healthy and unvaccinated. They don't understand basic concepts like herd immunity that exist in the epidemiology/public health world. No your child is not "stronger/healthier" for not getting measles and not being vaccinated.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:28 PM   #19
Derek Maffett
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They don't understand basic concepts like herd immunity that exist in the epidemiology/public health world.
And other people don't seem to understand basic concepts like quarantine and isolation (I'm talking about the concepts, not the strict medical definitions).
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Old 02-11-2009, 06:27 PM   #20
John Alston
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Measles kills, proven.
MMR leads to autism - only via super shakey science.
I think we should be able to sue folks who don't vaccinate and bring their infested kids into areas and infest others. Why not? Willful negligence.
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