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Old 02-11-2009, 08:24 PM   #21
Yael Grauer
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http://www.guideforselfhealing.com/2...rom-gary-null/
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:15 PM   #22
Garrett Smith
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http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../288/5470/1323
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Science 26 May 2000:
Vol. 288. no. 5470, pp. 1323 - 1324
DOI: 10.1126/science.288.5470.1323

PUBLIC HEALTH:
Aluminum Is Put on Trial as a Vaccine Booster
David Malakoff

SAN JUAN, PUERTO RICO--Complaints about vaccine safety and debate over a mysterious muscle ailment have prompted researchers to take a fresh look at the use of aluminum adjuvants, which are used to cause the immune system to react earlier, more potently, and more persistently to the antigen contained in the vaccine. This month, as some 70 scientists gathered here for 2 days of often vigorous discussion of the findings about the muscle ailment, a larger question hung over the gathering: Will aluminum be the next battleground in the vaccine wars?
I believe it's relatively well proven that mercury and aluminum are neurotoxic as well. But in case you need it written up, http://acta.uta.fi/english/teos.php?id=10127 :
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Mercury and aluminum are neurotoxic metals with diverse effects on cellular functions in the brain. Ultimately exposure to them can lead to neural destruction and degenerative diseases. Although their toxic potency is now widely known, their existence in the environment and in several man-made applications makes human exposure inevitable. There are many mechanisms that cause cellular destruction with a delicate interplay with each other. That is why studies on different adverse mechanisms, and new methodological developments, as applied in this work, broaden the knowledge of the toxicity of these metals. Cell culture systems make such studies possible in strictly defined conditions.
Oh wait, I forgot. Injected mercury and aluminum compounds are only toxic in European countries...
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:43 PM   #23
Derek Maffett
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Originally Posted by John Alston View Post
Measles kills, proven.

Correction - measles can kill. It's not a 100% fatality or even remotely close. Flu season also kills people. Should we sue the same way for negligence here?

MMR leads to autism - only via super shakey science.

Have you ever noticed something about that? When somebody dies of measles or some other such disease, it's listed as the cause of death right away. Because it obviously was. We don't need to do tests on what's ridiculously obvious. But with autism and any other ailment associated with vaccines, the scientists fight tooth and nail to prove that it was nothing but a coincidence. I don't see the big arguments about how "It wasn't the measles - it was just a coincidence because many people just happen to die sometimes."

I think we should be able to sue folks who don't vaccinate and bring their infested kids into areas and infest others. Why not? Willful negligence.
"Infest"? "Sue"? "Willful negligence"? Those are fighting words...suing eventually means mandatory vaccinations and sounds rather like trying to crush the opposition in this debate by means of government force. Are you prepared to live under such a government that takes complete control of our lives?

Think carefully about what you're wishing for here.

By the ways, I might consider public schools (the point of my last post) to be a form of "child neglect" in some ways. The education is lousy and diseases spread like crazy in that environment. But wait, the government supports that.
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:06 PM   #24
Brandon Oto
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I give up.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:11 PM   #25
Derek Maffett
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Originally Posted by Brandon Oto View Post
I give up.
Must be old age...
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:53 AM   #26
Jared Buffie
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Originally Posted by John Alston View Post
Measles kills, proven.
MMR vaccine kills, also proven.

http://www.hrsa.gov/Vaccinecompensat...ics_report.htm

Measles vaccine is not responsible for cutting measles deaths, also proven:

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Old 02-12-2009, 12:29 PM   #27
Garrett Smith
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Jared,
I love seeing that graph every time you put it up.
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:31 PM   #28
Brandon Oto
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Very very misleading graph in my opinion.

Quote:
An aside: there is some misinformation circulating about the effectiveness of the measles vaccine. This graph, for example (above) is very misleading in terms of its commentary. The data presented are on measles DEATHS, which as discussed are quite low relative to the population; however the spread of the disease itself was relatively unabated prior to mass vaccination. To compare, there were 441,703 cases in 1960 (see above), and 22,231 in 1968 (http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcom...s/1972-02.pdf). Death rate in 1960 is accurately listed as .2 per 100,000 (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/VSUS_1962_2A.pdf).
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:16 PM   #29
Ari Kestler
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OK...so according to you, mortality is not improved by vaccination. What about morbidity? Is that reason enough to vaccinate?

If not, where do you draw the line? Should we never give out antibiotics? Doctors give out antibiotics for common ear infections despite the fact that you will completely clear the infection. Why? Because a certain % of the time, you develop mastoiditis, and/or meningitis. While these events are relatively rare, is it worth it? The only reason I bring it up is because it actually happened to a perfectly healthy woman this past week in the hospital on my team. Ear infection, no biggie, a week later, reports to the ED for fever and changes in mental status. She is still in the ICU.

Skin your shin doing deads at the gym...it's just staph. you can probably clear it...pay no attention to the red streak going up your leg...I mean technically, with enough time, saline, blood products and pressors your body will eventually clear any infection. Everytime you go into septic shock we will just give you fluids, pressors and shock you back to life....or you could just not worry about it and put this topical antibiotic on it....the list goes on and on....
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:59 PM   #30
John Alston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Oto View Post
Very very misleading graph in my opinion.
Yes, Agreed.
While I may have been drunk when I made my post above, that graph supports just general increase in the us health care effectiveness and I think little more.
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