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Old 01-18-2009, 04:30 PM   #11
George Mounce
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Quality of food has little to do with the equation which is why I never tell someone to get on the Zone without first improving their quality of food.
Uh.....

So quality has nothing to do with it, so you tell people to improve their quality of food?

You are right there skewing your results. The Zone works regardless according to your previous statement based on amounts, not on the types. I agree that quality trumps quantity any day. The Zone doesn't work regardless though. You do a diet of potatoes, crisco, and slim jims, I guaruntee you won't get the results.

You said EVOLUTION. Evolution has absolutely nothing to do with division of labor in a society. It has everything to do with micro-mutations in an organism to help them survive. Women didn't evolve to sit in a camp with children, I'm sorry but that has never been so.

Men hunted because they were generally stronger, and didn't have babies in bellies. That's not evolution, that is division of labor based on sex, and survival as a community. Why humans do this, who knows. Some of the world's best predators are females, not males. It is not so in every culture, nor in every species. To bring up evolution as the crux of your previous argument does little.
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Old 01-18-2009, 05:00 PM   #12
Chris Salvato
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George,

What I am saying is that quality of food IS important -- the zone, however, IGNORES quality of food. At the heart of the zone, it always did ignore food quality always will. By saying zone dieting increases food quality is nonsense:

Quote:
The Zone works because it changes quality and quantity of calories, and yes insulin has a lot to do with it.
Bullocks. It changes quantity, frequency and ratio...not quality. The lack of addressing food quality is (and always will be) an inherent problem with zone dieting.

Paleo increases food quality. The zone does not by nature - though in practice most people pick the higher quality foods. Hell, they are dieting, so they may as well make the BEST choices from Sears' list for their STRICT dieting plan that is calorically restrictive.

Coupling Zone with quality food is not in line with the ideology.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding your thoughts on evolution - asians are more carb tolerant and more predisposed to lactose intolerance. A few thousand years of women sitting in camps while men killed mammoths may have just as much of a drastic effect on the female population as a whole.

When you examine the fact that many societies had women that had long term access to varied food sources then you can realize that there is a POTENTIAL (not a definite) reason to believe that women may have evolved differently than men in this case.

Division of labor can CAUSE evolutionary differences if the division of labor is constant for thousands of years (or even much less...). If organism A always has access to varied food sources and organism B has limited access to food on more regular occasions then it is PROBABLE not GUARANTEED that Organism A's descendants will adapt differently than Organism B's descendants - even if they are the same species.
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:57 PM   #13
Jane Michel
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Awesome. Makes sense to me, and my patients results would seem to confirm it.
Garrett what did your patients' results show?
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:28 AM   #14
Garrett Smith
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Alicia,
The results have been

Improved digestion by separating high protein and high carbs (ie. meat with non-starchy veggies). This simple step can get rid of a lot of indigestion and bloat.

Reducing bodyfat, "losing weight", by separating high fat and high carbs. Note that nearly all "junk foods" are high-fat and high-carb together.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:34 PM   #15
Jane Michel
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Thanks Dr G.

I am now thinking of trying this out for fun and to see if my after-meal bloats will improve but do you think the experiment would work with IF and a 5-hour eating window - if I ate all my veggies within the first hour and ate the protein and fat within the fifth hour?
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:45 PM   #16
Garrett Smith
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Alicia,
Non-starchy veggies aren't likely part of the problem you are having. It's any fruit or starchy stuff.

If you want to eat carbs that aren't non-starchy veggies, eat them at least a half hour before your meat.

If you're eating carbs with your meat, always eat the meat first (unless it is already mixed with the carbs, like a stir-fry or casserole). No real solution for mixed dishes.

If you have a 5-hour eating window every day, your IF isn't "intermittent" at all. Just a thought.
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Old 01-21-2009, 02:13 AM   #17
Jane Michel
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Ok Dr G. Sometimes I get really bad bloat and have no idea why (unless it's stress) so I thought I'd try this out. Oh well thanks for the advice on food timing.
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Old 01-21-2009, 05:09 AM   #18
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Stress will do it, as will sugar + protein. Good luck.
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:52 AM   #19
Donald Lee
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Dr. G, could you explain why fruit and starchy carbs can cause indigestion and bloating? I always thought that indigestion was a result of a lack of stomach acid to digest protein and fat.

Also, are you recommending starchy carbs at least 30-min before protein because the protein takes longer to digest? Intuitively, this approach seems like it may promote fat gain, but I don't really know much about the timing of how the body undergoes digestion and all that.

I just decided to start eating a bit more to gain a little weight, and I experienced some bloating. I usually only eat starchy foods post workout, but now I'm eating starchy foods throughout the day.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:55 PM   #20
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The simple story is this.

Protein is mainly digested in the stomach, where an acidic environment (ie. HCl) is necessary to break down animal protein.

Carbs are mainly digested in the small intestine, where an alkaline environment is necessary. Note that this is a 180 degree switch from the stomach.

The stomach will take as long as it needs to in order to break down the animal protein, as one of the last things we want in our intestines is partially digested meat sitting at >100 degrees.

Carbs will then sit in the stomach, not digesting, and start to ferment. This produces gases that result in bloating, as well as a feeling of food "just sitting there like a rock". The end result is that neither the protein or carbs is digested as well as it could be.

Carbs are much easier/faster to digest than animal protein, hence they can "stay ahead" of animal protein if they are given a head start (like 30 minutes).

This digestion situation is exactly why so many people feel so bad after eating a decent dinner of mostly meat and veg, only to follow it with some kind of sugary dessert (and the resultant unpleasant digestive symptoms).

Low stomach acid only compounds the problem.
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