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Old 01-18-2009, 03:48 PM   #11
Liam Dougherty Springer
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I am pretty much seconding an earoier post but I am also hving a hard time not throwing my hips back and ending up in a LBBS position except with the weight on my damn neck which is less than desireable but I can tell I really need both the quad strength and ankle flexability needed in order to improve my snatch reception as well as strengthen my FS as I am always wanting to lean forward at higher Intensity sets. So if there are any suggestions out there please help me and the others in this thread out.
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:39 PM   #12
Allen Yeh
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Originally Posted by Patrick Yeung View Post
Well, I tried this last night and heres what I noticed.

It was a lot harder and uncomfortable for me. The LB feels so comfortable and natural for me. It felt a lot heavier as well, ended up doing about 20% less weight in my sets. And, I didnt feel any hamstrings at all when I did it right. Not compared to LB at least.

The hardest thing for me thought was keeping my back upright and sitting straight into it instead of back. Any tips on correcting this?
Initiate the squat with your knees, it's counter intuitive to low bar and Crossfit air squats but in the high bar Oly squat. Knees first, you should be sitting down in between your legs rather than on top of them. If you want some more info about sitting between your legs google "Goblet squat and Dan John"

LB will be heavier usually than HB. You should break your squat down to basics and work the lower weights before bringing it back up to your LB weight ranges.
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:51 PM   #13
Troy Archie
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It is not unusual for it to cause shoulder pain, or wrist pain if the shoulders/arms are too tight to keep the hands and wrist in the right position.
I've been having MAJOR biceps tendonitis with the LBBS and my shoulder has been giving me problems too. The shoulder problem I contribute to bench press grip but I'm sure the squats aren't helping. Anyone else out there with biceps problem?

I also think it's interesting to note, the amount of instructional videos and detailed writting gone into the LBBS whereas I've seen little in regards to the HBBS. Form with the LBBS seems to be an ongoing issue for me and something I'm always working on and trying to maintain while the weights get heavy.
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Old 01-18-2009, 09:19 PM   #14
Brian DeGennaro
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Troy, I think it's because low-bar tend to require more technique than a high-bar squat. I mean, HB just seems much more natural than LB. When you tell someone to squat, they'll just drop down between their legs. It's a very basic, fundamental position to be in. At a max attempt for a HB squat, you just tell the person to sit down and stand up, it's very simple to coach. You don't have to have someone feel for just below parallel, focus on driving up with their hips, not allowing their knees going too far forward, etcetera. Low-bar is a very unnatural movement I think.
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Old 01-18-2009, 09:45 PM   #15
Patrick Yeung
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Troy:

It sounds like you may be trying to hold the bar with your arms, especially if youre liking it to a bench press grip. I do not find it similar at all. Squeeze your back together like youre trying to pinch a coin between your scapulas, this is where the bar should rest. Your arms should be in a narrower grip than a HBBS, and should be only pushing forward really, holding the bar on top of your flexed shoulders. I feel it as a stretch in my chest as if I were doing flys.

----

As far as the HBBS feeling more natural, when I first started doing squats (given this was only 6 months ago?) I started this way, as it is natural. But, it really hurt my lower neck and my spine. I think I may be doing them wrong, even still, because once I learned about how to hold a LBBS, I was sold. No pain ever, even with my heaviest weights. And, I was very familiar with body weight squats, and was used to that kind of drop.

But, I will definitely try concentrating on moving my knees first. Power cleans seemed so foreign and impossible. Then, I practiced high pulls and learned to keep my elbows out, and then it all made sense.....

Thanks.
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Old 01-18-2009, 09:53 PM   #16
Brian DeGennaro
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The placement of the bar in the HB style should be across the shoulders/upper back. However, not held as low down on the posterior deltoids as LB, but it should be held across the muscle. Also, you may have been craning your neck upwards while lifting, which definitely would've given you pain in the neck and spine, because you're ultimately compressing vertebre more than they ought to be. Hyperextension of the vertebre is just as bad as flexion.
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:23 AM   #17
Garrett Smith
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From Glenn's post:
Quote:
I also think the HB vs LB controversy has less meaning than has been assigned to it... for example, one certainly can squat with the bar in a low position and still do a pretty upright, deep squat, that as far as body position would satisfy any Olympic lifting coach. One can also do a HB squat and get quite bent over, I have personally proven that many times! Simply changing the position of the bar on the back doesnt magically change a good exercise to a bad one, or vice versa.
Let's keep bar position and squatting technique approaches separate.

Depth of squat is not necessarily dictated by bar placement either. I can also do a "knee-focused" or "hip-focused" BS regardless of bar position.

I choose the low bar position because my shoulder girdle anatomy is such that high bar creates discomfort for me--I do know where to put the bar for HB and when I put it there my right shoulder hurts. I can also feel the bar pressing on my vertebrae as the weights get heavier. Others may not have these issues, but I do and I'll say no thanks to HB based on my own experience. I even used to try that Manta Ray thing to alleviate my discomfort--I now prefer the LB, deep squat, hybrid style.
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:45 AM   #18
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Troy:

It sounds like you may be trying to hold the bar with your arms, especially if youre liking it to a bench press grip. I do not find it similar at all. Squeeze your back together like youre trying to pinch a coin between your scapulas, this is where the bar should rest. Your arms should be in a narrower grip than a HBBS, and should be only pushing forward really, holding the bar on top of your flexed shoulders. I feel it as a stretch in my chest as if I were doing flys.
Thanks for the feedback. I know it's probably tough to say for certain, but could this problem arisen from the bar being placed too low?
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Old 01-19-2009, 11:43 AM   #19
Matt Lawson
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I was working out with my fiancée a few days ago. We were doing LBBS (she’s doing 200# 3x3’s now at 119bw, I’m so proud). One of the guys that works at the gym got on our case for all of the qualities that set a LBBS apart from HBBS as well as saying we were going TO DEEP.
He had never even heard of LBBS, scary thing is: he apparently has his CSCS, CPT, and a BS in human movement science or something of that nature. Happily though, he agreed to read parts of SS, agreed to give them a shot, and agreed that it was a valid lift later.
I do both because I see the benefit of both…and I get bored easily.
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Old 01-19-2009, 06:26 PM   #20
Howard Wilcox
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I practiced some HBBSs today. I didn't attempt to go heavy as I could have but it does feel like the bar cuts into the traps a little.

Probably I need to pinch those muscles better or something. I imagine LBBSs would have hurt too had I been able to do larger weight from the start but instead my tolerance and capability likely grew at a similar rate.



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